When rape is a gift

When rape is a gift

I know, I know, it's a dangerous title, and I'll get hatemail. So let me say straight away that on no account do I advocate or in any way condone rape or abuse of any kind. Indeed, I urge all women (and men!) to use whatever force is necessary to defend themselves against would-be rapists, muggers and murderers. The last stranger in the street to be so misguided as to think that I would make a good rape victim probably didn't end up in hospital, but judging from his screams as I incapacitated him, and the way he staggered as he made his escape, he probably regretted having picked me to mess with.

The sort of “rape” that is a gift is the sort given by a man to the woman he loves because she wants it. Many women do.

Many men reading this will be feeling very uneasy. Nothing is guaranteed to bring a man out in a cold sweat faster than raising the subject of rape—except actually asking him to rape you, of course. “Oh, I could never do that!”, a man will say in a tone of alarm. No decent man wants to be a rapist.

But it's not rape and it's not immoral if the woman wants it. Is it?

It's a gift.

I have talked to a number of women about this over the years, and several have spoken of the deep gratitude they feel to the man who trusts and loves them enough to do this. These are dangerous waters, legally, so the man must trust the woman not to run to the police and cry “rape!” He must have the strength to risk making himself vulnerable in this way. He must have faith that she knows what she wants and is willing to take the risk. He must believe in his ability not to misjudge the situation, and in the woman's ability to deal with it well if he does. He must be willing to be profoundly and intensely intimate with the other person. And for some men, contemplating such action forces them to face their own dark and troubling desires—desires they fear make them a monster. All this takes courage, strength, trust, and nerves of steel. Not for the faint-hearted!

And not something to do cavalierly. Extreme caution is advised. If you are not careful, your gift could be the psychological equivalent of a lethal letter bomb. Do not proceed in haste. Be sure to discuss it thoroughly first, to ensure that, as one woman put it, you are on the same page. If she wants more of a set scene at an agreed time but you think she wants you to take her completely by surprise—such as by creeping up on her in the dead of night when she thinks you are on a business trip two continents away—things might not go quite as well as you'd hoped. When in doubt, discuss it explicitly and in great detail first. And assume that the two of you might be mistaken about it all, and be ready to backtrack, make changes, and (if you both desire it) try again.

But enough of all that. How can it possibly be a gift? What might be going through a woman's mind before, during and afterwards? How does she feel?

How she feels beforehand depends upon the individual circumstances, but she may well feel fear—and she may well want to feel fear. Her heart may be thumping, her adrenalin pumping, her mouth dry, her palms sweaty: an exhilarating sort of fear, not the fear of a victim. She may be experiencing the most intense desire to be taken she has ever felt: a desire made only more intense the more strongly she resists and fights.

She may feel the need to fight as hard as she can, while willing you to prevail. When you do, the physical shock may be indescribably exquisitely pleasurable. She may feel as though she has billions of nerve-endings she had never had before. She may have the most intense climax she has ever had. She may scream as you have never heard her scream before. You may notice that her whole body suddenly relaxes, submitting, welcoming, worshipping. The whole experience may leave her feeling absolutely ecstatic, utterly peaceful, deeply submissive, totally yours. Connected. You may see in her eyes deep love, reverence, awe, soft submissiveness, deep gratitude, adoration, and belonging. She may well be moved to tears.

Hold her. Stroke her hair. Kiss her softly. You have taken her. She is yours.

The Boss

[A note about the comments on this thread: there is a bug in the software, such that the links to later comments do not work. To see the most recent comments on this thread, click on the last page link at the foot of this page, and scroll down.—The Editor]

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Comments

My experience

Last week, I had one of the most amazing sexual encounters I have had with my husband and this is in comparison with a normally great sex life. I wouldn't have used the word rape for it, but he was insistent, demanding, urgent and rough. It was like rape in that I felt like I had no control. He took me and my body responded. I had no sense of having any conscious choice about it. It was incredibly erotic and gave me a new understanding for women who have rape fantasies.

I don't usually think in terms of rape imagery, because I believe so strongly in my husband's right to my body. It is not possible for him to rape me because he has automatic consent. I can't get into rape fantasies because they involve imagining that I would withhold myself from my husband and that is too disturbing an idea for me. However, now I have a better grasp of its appeal. Rape is the ultimate in forceful, dominating sex.

JK

I Stumbled on to this site via a Google Search

This is crazy. A person who wants to find a reason to rape a woman will read this site and think, "she will really enjoy it if I have forcefull sex with her (i.e.rape) because look at all of these other women". You are giving criminals an excuse. Play out your fantasies in private if you wish, but give other women who have been victimized the respect of not advocating rape.

- concerned student studying Domestic Violence

Read.

If you bothered to read anything on this site, like I did for two days before posting, you'd realize it is made very clear that this is consentual between two adults in a long-term, monogamous relationship. If rapists are looking for an excuse to rape, there are plenty of other places they can find it, without having to dig through articles and articles on an all-text site.




Bound

To the concerned law student

You might like to read the preceding 236 comments. You will find a number of answers to your concern in those comments.

I wonder why you assume that the women who find this idea erotic have never been raped. That is quite untrue, and when you demonise a perfectly normal fantasy like this, you risk just adding more harm to the rape victim who is unaware that many other rape victims nevertheless have rape fantasies and feels guilty and miserable as a result. If this article and the subsequent discussion does anything, I hope it will help those women to realise that they are not sick or bad and don't need to feel guilty.

Keeping the truth quiet like a dirty secret certainly does not help rape victims!

Fantasies.

Everyone in the world has fantasies, whether or not they admit it. I do—and sometimes they scare me. Sometimes, that very fear makes me feel very much alive, although my fantasies seem to be on a much lower, in fact on ground level, to what I've read in this long, long, thread on rape.

To me, the thought of actually being raped in reality leaves, NOT a feeling of being very much alive, but rather one of being emotionless and dead. However, the thought/fantasy of a man WHOM I LOVED VERY MUCH, taking me against my will, i.e. holding my hands above my head and taking his pleasure, does in fact turn me on. But I would only ALLOW, and this is where con'sensual' consent comes into it, a man to do this if I'd given that very consent.

I think what needs to be said here is that the boss, correct me if I'm wrong because there are so many posts here that the main point of the discussion is in danger of being lost, has in fact been raped.

Where is our love and understanding in what she is trying to say, for goodness sake?

I think she is trying to make sense of what happened to her—and not only that, but trying to make other women feel that it is not wrong, per se, to want to fulfil your fantasies—but in a loving and consensual relationship, rather than a brutal and evil act committed non-consensually that should condemn such perpetrators to hell.

The word 'RAPE' actually means to 'BE TAKEN ABUSIVELY AND VIOLENTLY AGAINST YOUR WILL', but it also means 'to ravish', which in it's own terms means 'to charm or delight'.

THE TWO SHOULD NOT BE CONFUSED.

Which makes me wonder if perhaps we need to use words other than 'rape' to explain this strange 'CONSENSUAL' desire in both men and women. Maybe, 'Taken In Hand', fits the bill here.

So many of you posting on this thread say how much you love either being spanked or being the spanker. However, if the receiver of the spanking does not con'sensually' agree to this, it is abuse. No more, no less.

Lois Lane.

Reply to Lois Lane

Thanks for your comment, Lois. :-)

I did correct the misapprehension that I have never been raped or I would not write such a piece, yes. However, my writing this had nothing to do with trying to come to terms with having been raped. I just happen to have spoken to a lot of women about this over the years, and thought that it is a subject that needs to be aired in public rather than kept secret like something to be ashamed of.

Several of those commenting have said that for them, rape fantasies and rough sex are indeed a way of moving on with their lives and not letting a rape destroy them. (One person wrote a piece called Three different experiences of rape that you might like to read in this connection. Perhaps this is the piece you were thinking of?)

On the subject of what to call this thing, and the problem with calling it “rape”, you might like to read some of the preceding comments. This has been discussed at length in the comments.

On the subject of consent, She wants to be taken in hand against her will?! might be worth a look. This article explains the idea of consensual non-consent. It applies to what we are talking about here, too. See also the preceding comments on the When rape is a gift thread, and in particular (if spanking appeals to you) this comment: Why is rape wrong? (See the first page of comments relating to When rape is a gift.)

I hope this helps!

Juat one more thing

Just one more thing. (Gosh I feel like Columbo)

I find it amazing that we human beings need such a huge volume of words in order to adequately express ourselves. Even when I think I think I'm doing a good job at getting my point across, I find that my audience often interprets what I'm saying through the filter of their own experience, upbringing and particular emotional state. So, try as each of us may, it's still going to be difficult to share precisely what we mean. Case in point; last night my husband and I had a conversation in the wee hours. I offered a fairly concise and subject specific comment, which he wholeheartedly disagreed with. He then repeated exactly what I had just said as though it was a brand new idea, except he used one different adjective. Ah, just one word, and he felt he was shedding new light on our discussion. When I told him that I had just finished saying that very thing, he replied, "No you didn't, you said..." Repeating not the words I used, but the way he heard the message I was trying to convey. It took another twenty minutes of discussion before both of us were satisfied that we'd been heard. And isn't that the point of these discussions? We need not only to share, but to be heard, understood, validated. (okay, maybe this is more than just one more thing)
I have an image that dwells deeply in my innermost private sanctuary of self. It's been there since the week before my forth birthday. It's an image that has helped to created my idea of sexuality. A small, very observant child, I often watched my older brother disappear into the basement where he opened the root cellar door, took something off a high shelf in darkness, then closed himself into the bathroom for long periods of time. Curious, I took the opportunity to face the boogeyman who lived under the stairs, and the other scary creatures who undoubtedly made their home in shadowy recesses. Trembling I dragged a step stool to the cellar, climbing to the highest step where, terrified, I thrust my hand into the void above my head. My small fingers contacted a thick sheaf of papers which turned out to be erotic pictures. Whoo hoo! (here's where the image gets seared into my brain-told you it can take a lot of words sometimes) Heart beating with fear of what might suddenly reach out to grab me from the darkness, as well as no small amount of anticipation, I clutched my newfound treasure and crept quietly into the brightness of the laundry room. One at a time, I turned the pages of the loosely bound volume, my eyes and mind taking in the vividly graphic images. Nipples on large breasts being pinched by rough male hands; stern faced men pointing as beautiful young women undressed; a whole series of period costumed lords and ladies, the men spanking plump female bottoms, the women's expressions communicating both mock horror and pleasure. I can still smell the mildew every time that picture pops vividly into my mind. Like a pop up on a computer screen, that particular memory tends to be persistent. Years later, I had sad occasion to experience violation. Not rape, but molestation by a friend's dad. These two events most likely are the source of my own desire for being taken when I have sex. I want a romantic, dominant man to simply wrest pleasure from me. Not take it away, but give it to me till I'm breathless with the power of it, via his forceful erotic authority. I don't want rape from a stranger. I do want to be overcome, ravished by the man I love. I want him to be the kind of man who can do that, and wants to sometimes. I also enjoy great heaps and bucket loads of tenderness, so there's a balance of sorts involved here. So on and on I've gone trying to share how these ideas appeal to me. Not to startle, offend or invite or condone crime. Simply in an effort to explain, without guilt, that I like sex to be rough and tumble and allow me complete abandon sometimes. That's enough out of me. the boss, thanks for being brave enough to broach this sticky topic, and allow me the opportunity to feel I may actually be heard.

Many thanks.

I agree that these things should be aired because it makes for a better understanding all round, and I consider this site somewhere many of us can come to in order to reach an understanding of our own and also others' points of view.

Many of the things posted in different articles on this site have certainly made me sit up and take notice—and enabled me to come to terms with things I desire myself—and not feel guilty about them.

So, thank you to the management of this site for providing these forums.

Lois Lane.

Response to the student who stumbled.

Actually, after a life long interest in why people do the things they do, I've come to the conclusion that criminal minds function quite differently than non criminal minds. Rape is essentially about violence, hate, and fear. Yup, a big dose of fear in there. Perhaps some rapists will conclude, from this very lively discussion, that a woman's fantasy to play out non consensual sex with her beloved is an invitation to rape strangers. I really don't know. What I do think, is that those who rape, beat, attack, or murder will do so no matter what the victims thoughts or preferences are, especially in spite of them. Most rapists hope they are doing harm to a woman, and want to take from her what is not his to take. I wonder if that type of mind might not actually be repulsed to encounter someone who would not feel abused when abuse is the goal? This site is for married and or committed people's take on their relationships. A rapist can observe normality off line as well as on. Some of them have already convinced themselves their victims want their sad, sick attacks. While it's true that the fantasies being discussed, or more accurately the needs being discussed aren't main stream normal, they are far more common than one might guess. I think for myself, the idea of being taken by the one I love represents sexual freedom. In being taken, I'm given the opportunity to experience a greater degree of abandon than I might otherwise experience during regular consensual sex. During regular sex, there is a consciousness of the need to give, to participate in the process. If I'm feeling as though he is in charge, I may feel a sense of freedom. Lets remember, we're talking about a relationship between two people who know and love each other here. Now, actual rape from a stranger is repellent to me. I appreciate your concern, but I also appreciate a forum in which to share this type of need/desire.

Rapists are not rapists because of this site

I understand and respect your decision. however, rapists will rape regardless and they really don't care about anyone's feelings from their actions. Even if they don't read sites like these rapists already may think the women they rape enjoy being rape by them because that's what they decide to believe. I study criminal justice and will move on to psychology and I will tell you that there are worse sites than this forum. I don't know what you googled but if you typed in rape or sex I bet the other site you didn't click on had 100 times more crazy information than this. Just be opened minded: sexual fantasies will always exist and is a beautiful thing when you are making them come true with your loved one. And when it is with your loved one, it is a beautiful thing. Rapists are sick people and not having a site like this will not stop them. Mature people can read this and think nothing of it but a different way of experiencing sex. Just think about that. We can't please everyone.

rape

A woman gives to everyone around her, she organizes, plans, coordinates, controls, mothers, she schedules,....

but to be taken, is to give up some of that control, ot be taken in love, and great intimacy, without fear normally attached to "rape" outside of relationship.

I've been taken in date rape, as my first experience to "4th base", and left feeling defiled. I've been taken by a marriage partner who replied aferwards "sometimes a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do" and again felt used... I've allowed my body to be taken for the pleasure of my husband just so that he will quit moping around the house and "feel loved" because he needs it, but I feel nothing...

And I've been taken in lust by a lover who truely has me, mind, body and soul, conquered by one who already has my heart and my desire, "forced" to his will and his bidding.

It was "freeing" to be "used" thusly, incredibly erotic incredibly intimate, incredibly lust filled animalistic love, where thinking (on my part) completely stopped. The world stopped. I controlled nothing, planned nothing, (beyond asking him to tie me up).

And it's good for a woman to have her world stopped once in awhile....

kj

Being used

'a woman gives to everyone around her, she organises, plans , coordinates, controls, schedules'.

Now I understand why this whole 'rape' thing has no appeal for me. Because I am not one of these giving women who spend all their time organising, planning, controling,etc, I have no control to give up, so maybe that's why the idea of being forcibly taken has no appeal for me at all. I never plan, schedule or coordinate anything. My husband does all that.

I hope this doesn't mean that he has secret dreams of being overpowered and ravished, because I don't think I'd be up to it.

Dominating Sex

I know what you mean. I tell my fiance often I want him to take what is his. I absolutely love it when I go to bed before him and he wakes me up with sex because I did not take care of him before I went to sleep. When he does this it really amkes me feel like I BELONG to him. I feel so satisfied that I was able to saisfy him.

Ravishment

I've read enough of the threads to see that people are going way out of context on this topic. I'm also an educated person, versed in feminism, civil rights, constitutional law, psychology, social work, and education. What the boss speaks of is not advocation of "rape" in the mainstream sense but instead of a consensual nature. It is of taking what a submissive wants to give, and taking it forcefully and rightfully. (Many of you will have to chew on this one.) It is ravishment. It is fantasy and play but also the strong desire to let go and give, and in giving you get to struggle and resist—that's part of the fantasy. *Sigh* so much has been posted on this thread but I'm glad the boss spoke up. Unaware or uneducated readers, aka ignorant, will simply never understand this.

You are out of your mind

Your husband has a RIGHT to your body?? he has AUTOMATIC consent? You are the embodiment of stupidity. NOBODY has the right to your body, and you have the right to turn down your husband for sex at any time. Period. He does not have the right to insist upon sexual activity when you are not consciously a willing participant.

You're no woman. Your a doormat with boobs.

Nothing is wrong with it

Rape maybe the wrong word. If you can be open and honest with your spouse and can both consent to an act of role-play such as that then there is no problem. If you're not into a role-play like that don't do it—simple as that, but don't go judging others. Many ppl are free in their sexuality in the sense that they can tell their partner "I want to try this and I CONSENT TO IT"; it's an act of role-play, rough sex, whatever you want to call it. I feel you're very quick to judge rather than read what she truly said. If with your spouse you're open minded and consenting to such an act there is no place for you to judge. If it's not for you, that's good but others do like that role-play.

Rape

You're right, if done right it is the best sex a guy can have (to 'rape' his girl), and again, if done right, it's the best sex a girl can/will have.

Reading Between the Lines

Thank you for the article and the site. I'm glad to see a (mostly) rational and honest dialogue on this subject. I'm a young guy looking around to see what sort of philosophy may be out there which jives with what I now know to be the right (at least for me, and the right woman).

I think it's already been well covered that the original term of "rape" is a misnomer. Before I really had a clear understanding and comfort with my natural dominance, I was in a relationship with a girl who expressed an interest in rape fantasies and I'd like to share that experience with you.

She said she'd tried it with a previous partner. It wasn't the greatest relationship to begin with, but she didn't like it. She couldn't (or wasn't sure how to) express it, but she said it was too clinical. She didn't like having to "draw out a diagram" and thought a safe-word ruined it somehow.

Now, at the time she told me this, it was about a month in to our relationship and was never mentioned again. Trying to be a sensitive man who doesn't question slogans or see shades of gray I was slightly repulsed by the idea. We both had abusive childhoods; I actually thought less of her for having such a desire.

About a year into our relationship we weren't happy. I certainly wasn't. Sex was technically great, but there was no passion. Plenty of orgasms, dutifully given and received. She would often be a total brat in or out of the bedroom, seemingly for no reason. Looking back now, I can see how what we had could have been something like a Taken In Hand relationship. She was testing me.

One night, we were on a road trip (which had been miserable) and I got us a room at a nice little no-tell motel. We had all kinds of toys and such to spice things up and we talked about making the most of the motel atmosphere at dinner. But when we were in bed, she suddenly refused. She had a headache, her "vagina had a headache", and anything else you can think of.

As we lay frustrated on opposite sides of the bed, it came to me. Everything snapped into place. I took her anyway. I had been frustrated but it wasn't out of anger, And though she initially fought me and called me names, after a few minutes it was amazing. We knew each others buttons and had all kinds of toys, but never before had it been that good.
Afterword she snuggled up against me in a way she never had before, even when we first got together. We were profoundly connected that night.

Even though things weren't good, we loved each other. Trust and intimacy were our main problems. She always had a wall up, and I did too. We didn't really know ourselves well enough. But I knew her. In that moment, I managed to pull-off that mind reading trick that so many women seem to expect or hope for. In fact, I got really good at it. From then on, I could tell the difference between when she said she didn't want it, and when she really, actually, didn't want it.

That passion alone was not enough to save our relationship, however it was an important learning experience. From that, I am a better man and potential husband. Was it rape? Of course not. My girlfriend called it being "taken in a manly fashion", often with a smirk. Was there clear verbal consent? Not at all. But I knew her well enough (and had enough confidence in myself), to understand her needs without 'drawing out a diagram'.

It's not something I would ever try with a stranger or in a new relationship. In fact, I would go about building the relationship in a completely different way now. However with love, trust, and a responsible man who is in control of himself and has a keen awareness of his woman, I think that taking and being "taken in a manly fashion" is truly a gift for both.

Sex with my husband

I also feel it would not be rape because I am aware of being always available for my husband at all times. I do this because I want to be the best wife for him by trying to satisfy him as much as possible. But by doing this I also feel very sexy and arouse, just to think that he can and will do what ever he wants to do when ever he wants it... super sexy. I also know he loves me respect me enough to always be the best husband he can be and that includes our bed.

Objectification

the boss:

I read your post. I have to say I'm disappointed to see you contributing to the problem of the Objectification & Fethishization of Women. I ask you to consider if this post furthers the cause—of Women or of DD, if you do you'll see its innapropriate to make a Woman into an Object. When a Woman Herself posts this kind of misogynistic material its a sad day. Its' just this kind of material that in the wrong hands lights the fires of Rapists. Making love should be exactly that, this is a far cry from the love & intimacy a Man and Woman can share.

Re: Objectification

Thank you for your comments. I do hope that you are mistaken in thinking that my article might have the effect you fear, and I have no wish to contribute to the problem of rape. Nor do I want to upset anyone. You wrote:

I'm disappointed to see you contributing to the problem of the Objectification & Fethishization of Women. I ask you to consider if this post furthers the cause—of Women or of DD, if you do you'll see its innapropriate to make a Woman into an Object. When a Woman Herself posts this kind of misogynistic material its a sad day.

I must confess to feeling a little puzzled by this criticism. I am at rather a loss to know what you might mean by this suggestion that I am making women into fetishistic objects. A woman is not an object abnormally stimulating desire, she is desirable quite normally and naturally—just as a man is! In a sense, each is an object, and a jolly good thing too! It does not seem to me to be in any way desirable not to be an object of desire. Yes, of course we are more than that, but let's not deny that we are also objects of desire.

To accept that women and men are (or can be) objects stimulating desire is in no way to hate them or in any way disrespect them; it is just a fact.

It does not threaten me or upset me to be objectified in this way. Why should it?! If you want to argue that being an object of desire puts you at risk of being raped, well, perhaps there may be some truth in that. But if so, the answer is not to start wearing a bulky boilersuit, never bathing, and so on (which would presumably reduce your appeal a bit), the answer is to learn self-defence and not to wander around the bad area of town alone at 11 o'clock on a Friday night.

Forgive me, but I do not really see how all this relates to my article. The article assumed that it is the woman asking her man to “rape” her, not the other way around. The point was to help men understand why a woman might want this, or rather, how it could possibly feel like a gift to the woman. And whilst it might not be to your taste, and you might not experience it as a powerfully intimate interaction, I assure you, many couples do.

It is tempting to judge the experiences and desires of others. I am sure we all do it sometimes. But when you find yourself reacting with distaste to something others finds valuable, I personally think that it is worth trying to assume that there is something you do not understand, rather than leaping to the conclusion that those others have Deep Psychological Problems. :-)

fantasy: rape a gift

Sometimes I fantasize about spreading my arms wide and flying like a bird; about soaring above the clouds and breathing air untouched by humans.
Then I open my eyes and look down at my single arm, with two fingers attached to where my elbow should be.
Guess fantasizing about that, about something that I will never do in real life, makes ME a sick woman, too. Please let me know who YOUR psychiatrist is, and I will "get some help".

Getting help

Someone wrote:

RAPE A GIFT?

YOU ARE A SICK WOMEN!! GET SOME HELP!!

Thank you for your helpful suggestion. I would certainly get some help if I had a man who would oblige.

I don't want to be "Loved" all the time.

I like making love to my husband, and it is great but after 10 years with the same man some new material is in order, lighten up, be open minded, perhaps not to this extreme but if you think that a man and a woman allways make love you are mistaken, sometimes there's just hard sex.

Rape

Didn't Rhett Butler take Scarlet O'Hara in Gone With The Wind and was she not tamed in the morning and extremely happy?

Gone With The Wind

Yes, but 'Gone With The Wind' is fiction, and it is always dodgy to confuse fiction with real life. You have, for instance, all those happy contented slaves in the novel, whether that accords with the reality of life on the plantation is, I would imagine, debateable.

Some women might be extremely happy to be carried upstairs and ravaged by their husbands, others might be really pissed off. My own feeling would be that you shouldn't try this at home unless you are sure that your wife is likely to react favourably.

I disagree

Horse shit. Just because it isn't YOUR thing, don't judge it for others...she was very open about the how/why/wherefores- and I agree with her 100%. Go sit in a catholic church service if you want to condemn others...otherwise shut the HELL up, and agree to disagree, or at least acknowledge that there are people who feel differently from you, but are not wrong or deviant...

Catholic church services

I don't know which comment you are replying to, but I've been to a number of Catholic church services and have never noticed that they are any more condemnatory than any other religion, I have always had the impression that hard-line Protestants tend to be more condemnatory than Catholics. The great thing about being a Catholic is that you can do what you like and then go and confess it and be absolved. Other religions do not have this advantage. If I was going to take to religion, I would definitely become a Catholic, it's much the most satisfactory one to belong to.

This is sickening

As many have pointed out, you need to find a better word for what you are talking about. Rape is a forcible act, what you are talking about is a fantasy. Any woman who has ever been raped I think will agree with me that on reading this article a the nausea and pain that anyone would call rape a gift after having gone through it is immense. Out of respect and decency you should find another word.
And to all of you men who posted about control: you believe it is in your right and everyone perhaps is "right in their own eyes" but that doesn't actually mean that you are. Women have strong feelings about their freedom, just as men do. Having someone's will bearing down on you is stressful and depressing and dehumanizing. If you are married and you believe that this is what your wife actually wants, you are sadly mistaken. Perhaps she has learned to believe this is what she wants, but had she ever been given the opportunity to know both worlds, submission and freedom, I think you know which one she would have chosen.

Agreed

I agree, rape is totally the wrong word for what she was trying to describe. There it no such thing as consensual rape because rape is termed as "unwilling sex".
Rough sex, dominant sex, forceful sex, perhaps is even pushing it, but I think what she was going for. The woman wants her man to take charge, but there SHOULD be a safe word established. If she gets hurt things can go so very wrong. If she wants her husband to surprise her by taking her, but it was agreed beforehand, openly, then it is not rape. It is role playing.
That is fine but if you love your wife you'll be willing to role play, but you'll want to know that she is enjoying it also.
SAFE WORD! Have a safe word if you are going to try something so dangerous.
Just because you know the person doesn't mean it isn't rape, and both partners should have the option to change their minds. Whether it is the husband who is too afraid of hurting his wife, or the wife who is afraid of living out that fantasy.
So you can role play and still struggle and still fight and it can still feel real, but that safe word is there, just in case.
I agree, this will spark some misunderstanding men into actual rape.

Selah

“Many men reading this will be feeling very uneasy.” How true! Conscience, fear, society, law, and many other dictates scream, “No, no, no!” Still, if a woman expresses this desire, should I dismiss it, without consideration? Should I project my own sense of right and wrong, declaring that she is faulty for feeling this way?

While I may cringe at the notion, I’m nonetheless fascinated by the psychology behind it. This is a very thought-provoking article and draws out varied reactions. Once the dust settles, it’s clear that the author is revealing something very intimate; a glimpse into a deep and dark place within her heart. Do I have the nerve to look into the abyss? Barely. It takes a lot of honesty and discretion.

“On no account do I advocate or in any way condone rape or abuse.” This is black and white. We’re not playing fast and loose with anyone’s safety. "These are dangerous waters." Approach circumspectly, listen and think, heed the warnings, tread carefully and wisely. “Do not proceed in haste. Be sure to discuss it thoroughly.”

Pondering these urges does not make a woman into a freak, any more than it transforms a man into a monster. Always remember the watchwords of choice and restraint. Lacking a proven, suitable, committed relationship, a woman will likely refrain from these perilous pursuits. Likewise, I control my baser male instincts, especially with regard for my wife’s needs. I am not compelled to act on every stray imagination.

Considering several previous comments, I understand the value of precise language, but I can also appreciate more forceful terminology, granted that no one is materially harmed by it. The original author paints a vivid picture, full of emotion and detail, elaborating on the main premise as necessary.

Many of the comments are also laced with strong emotion. Perhaps this explains why so many of the respondents perceived the post as incendiary. Raw feelings emerge ahead of reasoned opinion. Personally, I don’t find the article to be offensive or dangerous or inappropriate. Instead, it is enlightening, because I never considered the subject from this perspective.

Before speaking or writing or jumping into the fray, I try to pause and consider what I’m thinking. It’s too easy to make false assumptions, and I need some time to weigh the consequences. As a man, I’ve spent my entire life cultivating this discipline. Without it, I would have long ago injured myself and others beyond remedy. Regrettable accidents are bad enough, but I can’t abide or dismiss willful negligence in any man. Self control is a constant activity. There’s no vacation from responsibility.

I strongly object to this recent statement:

"This will spark some misunderstanding men into actual rape."

Why? Is this a demonstrated fact or just a distressing fear? Will a man cite this article, as a compelling reason to commit a crime? It’s no excuse at all. We are ultimately accountable for our decisions. Full stop. Do I accept the assertion that men are stupid, vicious, and reckless? Hardly. It’s an ugly charge and should be corroborated, qualified, or retracted. It’s a slur on the original article, and most men. Please, restate the concern, in a way that presents the risks and rewards, and promotes objective discussion. I’ll look forward to it.

Alan K

Wanting it

Just discovered this website, and am particularly grateful for this thread, especially for finding that the lead was composed by a woman. This has to be the most fascinating subject in the realm of adult heterosexuality, dealing as it does with secret desires and the ability of partners to read each others' minds accurately. The level of trust that is required is so deep -- after all, one need only consider the Jodi Arias case to see how badly things can go wrong if that trust is somehow abused. It seems to me that there must be an unconditional commitment to the pleasure AND well-being of the other, which is a lot to ask of ordinary mortals, to be sure.

That being said, I am in a steady relationship with a beautiful, independent woman who previously left me for someone who was borderline abusive to her, not once but THREE times. Each time she came running scared back to me, but something made her go back for more. It has been a challenge to me, as a guy who basically worships female beauty and sensibility, to "step up" and act in a way that will satisfy this need in her to be controlled, without asking her for direction or getting outside of her comfort zone. I would be happy to read any constructive suggestions on how I might earn the right to be the guy she is looking for!

Randy

The Voice of Reason?

the boss, I accept that you are being the voice of reason when you say "So let me say straight away that on no account do I advocate or in any way condone rape or abuse of any kind." I'm sorry, but that doesn't quite ring true to me. You are condoning and advocating a *certain* kind of rape and you continue to refer to it as rape throughout the article, so don't say one thing and do another unless you want to be called on it. The fact that it isn't *abusive* rape is irrelevant if you continue to refer to it as rape. I would have thought you'd give it a less inflamatory term, but evidently you like shocking people.

You are using terminology that has quite distinct mainstream meanings in a fashion designed to relate to TakenInHand relationships. There are bound to be issues with that.

Semantics

I think the problem is the word 'rape.' Any woman who has ever been sexually assaulted knows that rape is not an erotic experience. It is not erotic to be held against your will and repeatedly forced into physical intimacy with someone you barely know or don’t know at all. Someone whose physical touch is repulsive to you.

Rape is like being thrown off the side of a cliff on a dark, moonless night. You don’t know how many injuries you are going to sustain, you don’t know when the trauma is going to end, and you don’t even know if you are going to live through it. The event is nothing but terror from start to finish. It may haunt you for years to come. It may even interfere with or inhibit your ability to sustain intimate relationships (at least for a while).

In contrast, insistent sex with someone you love and trust is like a tandem sky dive. He knows where he is taking you. You trust him to get you there safely. He’s going to pull that rip cord in time. The entire experience is exhilarating, tinged with fear and but part of an exercise in yielding trust. It builds on the depth of emotion, it does not leave permanent scars.

In respect to all the women who have been victims of sexual assault, I think the fantasy of rape needs a new label.

I am new here but I thought I’d jump right in.

;-)

Maddy

Issues and logic

Interesting discussion.....

There's a number of different issues to tease apart here.

1. There's the legal case of rape: non-consensual sex.

2. Next there's the issue of can you call it "rape" if it's consensual?

3. Then there's the issue of the effect of the act on the recipient/victim.

4. There were some posts here that made a good case that the proposition that

if 1. then 3. = terrible effects = victim

is false.

Now, whether or not the effect is to make a victim of the woman, real rape is still wrong and illegal.

But do we need to find a new word for what the original writer is talking about? Words are commonly used metaphorically and I think the word is the right one to use to convey the power of the act.

My only perssonal problem with this idea is that I don't enjoy being given instructions in the sexual realm and I don't want to be asked to rape, not because I won't do it if it's desired, but because I need to be the initiator. But that's just myself.

Pat

Re: A Voice of Reason?

I read the original article with extreme interest as I have had rape fantasies before and find them highly erotic. I think the difference here is that the woman WANTS to be raped and it is merely a "role play" type of scenario being played out. She loves the idea of being completely out of control and having to do whatever he forces her to do.

When I have those rape fantasies it releases me as I am not doing any of those erotic things—he forces me to do it and that relieves me of any responsibility for what I am doing or allowing to be done to me.

Being taken forcefully has always been extremely erotic for me, and I am more willing to give him total control over the situation and my body. I think if we look at it as a fantasy role-play, it is easier to understand and is definitely not the same as being "raped". Thank you for a very insightful article.

Semiotics can be sexy

It is entirely possible (and true, from what I have observed) that the games between couples, such as are described here, don't have the same voltage and charge of the taboo, unless they are actually articulated in such terms as "rape." As in, "rape fantasy." We get into discursive fallacy territory by which all women whose desires don't fall into the second-wave McKinnonized paradigm of sexual desire that has a normative list of things it's "ok" to be turned on by have internalized the patriarchy and eroticized their own degradation or whatever.

No offense; had a rather arti

No offense; had a rather articulate response at hand but lacking the energy to utilize it--so I'll say this:

'Tomato' 'tahmato', ne? If naysayers like you keep referring to a certain word as possessing only negative connotations, that's all it might be. Isn't 'progression' the realization of establishing positive roles and shattering ages old negative stereotypes? Otherwise we wedge ourselves in a place to continue thinking sex in any form is bad and there's only one true, proper religion and way of living.

You're a bit like me, I think. You're almost too intelligent for your own good, but sometimes that lends itself to a little self-enlightenment. In this case, I think you're arguing a moot, bullshit, and ultimately degrading to women (as oppossed to the rallying cry you have that women enjoying anything other than vanilla sex is inherently evil) point.

Lighten up. :)

I agree completely that the c

I agree completely that the continued use of the word "rape" seems to contradict what was said at the beginning of the article. I definitely believe that there are women who enjoy rough sex, perhaps being tied up, the feeling of helplessness and so on, but by definition "rape" is not consensual. I feel that the use of this term took over the article and made it into something perhaps it was not meant to be. Rape is a very serious crime, one which should not be made into sport or entertainment. It is offensive when people reduce its seriousness to such levels.

Rape fantasies

I've always had rape fantasies. I like to read rape erotic fiction too. I used to worry about it, but I've read of so many women who admit to secretly thinking about it and books like My Secret Garden where the rape fantasy is listed as one of the top fantasies for women, I realize I'm not in a minority.

I know I would hate actually being raped. In fact, I would not hesitate to try and kill a stranger who tried to rape me, but then, most real rapes have nothing to do with sex and everything to do with violence.

I think the reason this idea is so powerful for so many women is that many (most?) women are taught while growing up that our sexual desires are wrong or dirty. Certainly not something to be freely expressed. I remember in junior high and high school, the sneering way the "good girls" gossiped about the "slutty girls".

So here is this dichotomy within many women. Most of us have natural, strong sexual urges, but if you act upon them, all society judges you. What to do? Well, my young and fertile imagination started imagining a man who overpowered me and *made* me take his supposedly unwanted attentions. This freed me from having to bear the shame of my desires. Now it was his fault, wasn't it? Not mine; I was still a good girl.

Again, nobody wants to be truly raped. True rape is about violence, not sex.

But as a sexy fantasy that allows the woman to be as free as she wants without fear of being judged, they can't be beat, IMO.

As far as trying to make the fantasy "real" with a beloved partner, alas, I've been unable to make it come true. I love my husband and even when he's tried to pretend to rape me as I've requested he do, he can't, really. I'm always open and available to him. The "rape" part lasts for about one second and then I succumb. :-) So this fantasy will always stay a fantasy. As many fantasies no doubt should.

Realizing I'm not alone - thanks

Amber:
I couldn't agree with your comment more. I am an 18 year old college freshman and I'm constantly fantasizing about a tall dark stranger raping me. I know I sound sick, but your comment has made me realize I am not alone. Don't get me wrong, I have a great relationship with my boyfriend of 2 years, but I still would like to feel that feeling of no control (and it's not the same when my boyfriend tries to play out my fantasy). So, thank you for your comment!

Lindsay L.

Anime rape scenes

I've always worried that I was very sick for being turned on by anime rape scenes and imagining them in my head to become aroused. But your statement makes a lot of sense.

I was raised to believe that sex was a dirty unspoken thing, and that masturbation was even worse. My sex life with my husband has suffered from it and until recently I have never tried to masturbate.

But I created these imaginary scenarios such as you did and always worried that I was sick. But what you said about making a scapegoat for guilt explains quite a bit.

I think I will try from now on to be more open about sex and my desires so that hopefully my hubby can pleasure me more than a bad fantasy can.

'Bad' fantasies

I have had many 'bad' fantasies.

Being tied up and toyed with... group sex... voyerism...

Now, both my husband and I agree that to playout some of these as they are would ruin our relationship, so we have worked out how to feed the need without ending up divorced.

We have purchased various cuffs, tie-downs, bondage tape etc... and tying me up to the point where I am helpless drives husband crosseyed as it is one of his fantasies too. ((we always have safety gear around in case something goes wrong)).

Group sex can be achieved by husband with hands full of vibrators. YAY!

Voyerism has me all blindfolded and husband taking photos with digital camera. After we look at the pictures we can safely delete. But it is so much fun.

I think that in bedroom play—there is always a way to get what you need, or a good substitute.

Sometimes it is good to be bad!

Cheers,

Suzette
"But sun it is not, when you say it is not, And the moon changes even as your mind: What you will have it names, even that it is, And so it shall be still, for Katharine."

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