The man needs to be the pursuer

The man needs to be the pursuer

I believe it takes a great deal of discernment when a woman desires a Taken In Hand relationship. I'm a very strong woman who will never settle for anything less than a very strong man. However, I'm convinced that the kind of relationship that I desire is only to be had if I am found by the right man, not if I am initiating the finding.

If a man doesn't possess the drive to pursue, woo, and win me, then he's not for me. If women want to meet alpha males, they need to position themselves in the natural habitat of alpha males. My analogy is the same for recognizing counterfeit money. If you were working in a bank, you would not be trained to recognize counterfeit money by handling the counterfeit, it would be by the constant contact with what's real and true. Spend your time in an environment where traditional men are found and you'll recognize the genuine article. Make character a higher priority than money, looks, jobs and cars, which are all transitory.

So many times, women complain that they want a real man, but they have an intolerance for the behavior of real men and reject the whole package. When talking to men, I throw out bread crumbs along the trail. If they pick up on them, I throw out more. If they fail to see the trail, I move on.

I have found on dating sites that the best way to meet the type of men that I wish is to wait for them to approach me at all times. If a man doesn't take the initiative to contact me, then there will always be something lacking later on. Reading his profile and saving him to my favorites has been more than sufficient to indicate a possible interest for the right man. For the rest, I'm thankful not to have wasted my time, no matter how attractive I may find them.

A light gesture such as a hand at the small of my back to lead me across a room is something I find most attractive. Going dancing is so very telling as well. If a man can take care of you while out dancing, leading and guiding you around the dance floor, protecting you from unwanted attention, and feeling the way he moves in rhythm with you, that is a great indicator to me.

There are many red flags for women to observe when they first meet men, but unfortunately, the desire to be coupled can blind women to their intuition. Always trust your inner voice. Leading and protecting are entirely different from controlling and imposing. Does he respect your opinion, your desires, wants, and wishes without caving in to them, or is he annoyed, angry, or resentful for no reason?

Women often make the mistake of behaving badly themselves and should be taken in hand, but at the outset of a relationship they should not excuse men for bad behavior, reasoning away actions because of external circumstances. If you wouldn't tolerate such actions from a child, there is no excuse for a man not to exercise self-control. A man who has not mastered himself will never be able to master a woman.

Sonja

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Comments

Well Said

Very well written and explained, there is nothing that I could add to further validate your comment

well said.

My thoughts exactly...

Sonja,

You've made great points and I agree completely, in theory. I too am a very strong woman who will only settle for an even stronger man. I think this topic could go on forever!

I have never in my life asked a man out for a date. In the world of online dating, I even hesitate to send the first email—though I will "wink" or make it obvious that I viewed his profile...and then I force myself to wait for him to do something. It would just feel fundamentally wrong to me to make the first move, he is the hunter and the chaser...not me!

If I want to find a man who is a leader, it seems logical that I need to sit back and be led, even in those subtle ways at the beginning. I need to let him ask for our dates, I need to let him choose what and where we meet, I need to let him open doors...and I love all of it.

And when that happens, when I am pursued by a man, it feels lovely. I feel cared for and special and I get to step back and be feminine.

I am often teased by friends for being far too picky, for too often "passing by," a great possibility who is interested in me.

But, my friends have no idea of my Taken in Hand needs and so don't realise that it isn't often that I come across a man who exhibits those traits...often, those "great possiblities" my friends see hold no interest to me because they just don't seem like Taken in Hand men.

However, my problem is that on those rare occasions when I come across a man who not only seems like a Taken in Hand man, but is also a man I'm attracted to...I find it difficult to sit back and wait!

Whilst I wouldn't make the first move, I've been guilty of seeming too eager early on, of initiating too many conversations, suggesting third or fourth dates. I find myself second and third guessing his thinking, wondering if maybe he's interested in me, but has been trained by modern society to let the lady do some of the chasing.

But, if I do pursue, it feels like it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy...either he loses interest in me, perhaps because I pursued him...or I lose interest in *him* because he seems to want to be pursued.

It feels very natural to me to be led, to be pursued...but I find that strong part of me taking over when I find something I want. And that struggle inside myself makes me wonder, do Taken in Hand men have their own struggle?

The women on this site very much want a man who will lead them, a man who will be the hunter and the chaser...but in greater modern society, men are told to treat women as equals, to let them take the lead.

Some men genuinely do want women to pursue them...and they certainly aren't the men for us Taken in Hand ladies. But what about the men who desperately want to lead, but have been so conditioned by society that they don't dare?

When I pass them by, because they're waiting for me to lead, am I missing out on a wonderful man who just needs a little encouragement to be his true self? When I lose interest in a man who lets me pursue him, am I judging too quickly?

Those questions are what always drive me to pursue...I just wonder, is it really so simple to say that a true Taken in Hand man will pursue a lady he wants? Or is modern society just far too complex for there to be one answer for every situation?

Do some of our dream men need to be reassured that they're allowed to be themselves? Or, do we Taken in Hand ladies need to stand our ground and wait for a man who knows he should do the chasing?

I don't know...in the meantime, I do love the idea of the latter and I shall just try to be natural and keep waiting to be pursued...and loving it when I am ;)

londoncinderella@googlemail.com

Pursure- I need to stop

I just came across this blog and I am so happy I did. I was in a 9yr relationship that ended a year and a half ago. I stayed completely alone & single from then until I was contacted by this guy who has pursued me for 3 years. He always wanted to see me and I always turned him down. In November 2009, he contacted me again and we started talking for awhile before going on a date. We went on a date and started seeing each other very often. However, I notice I am the one calling, texting, initiating spending time together. I realize that when a man pursues me and we start spending time together and he pulls away a little, I start to pursue him. It's like I am running after him to bring him back, just so he can pursue me again. Then when he comes back and gives me the attention that I want from him, I take small steps back and as soon as he starts again, I start pursue again.. It's freaking exhausting. I like a strong man who is confident, action taker, who has chilvary, who is protective, one who is a leader. Now, with this guy, he takes so long to initiate, he takes baby steps that I somehow thinks that he's pursuing other women while I am pursuing him. I've decided to just leave him alone, but I need to learn from this situation now that I know I am a pursuer, which I don't want to be. It's hard when you feel that connection with someone and then this power control steps and causes a problem... I just don't want to repeat this mistake again. I am trying to stop this from occuring in the future..

Living proof

This article is fabulous. I will say that I too am a strong woman and I married someone who is very wonderful and kind but lacks control completely. I did not realize that my strength had perhaps weakend him even more, because if it does not get done then I do it myself. When we were dating I picked every place and just thought it was nice of him to let me make every decision but....that stuff definitely shows up in other areas of life. So my advice ladies...please pull back when the strong woman in you wants to take over and pursue....pull her back, hog tie her and stuff her in the closet...No you don't have to pretend to be a damsel in distress but work on allowing that traditional lady to guide your character. You do not want to end up settling....and not have realized it until it is to late....If you start pursuing or even have to pick up the pursuit then you are the pursuer or at least the part time pursuer...it will show up again in decision making as well. Is that what you really want?

I swear I'm gonna write a book on this someday!

"Londoncinderella"—you hit home with these paragraphs:

"When I pass them by, because they're waiting for me to lead, am I missing out on a wonderful man who just needs a little encouragement to be his true self? When I lose interest in a man who lets me pursue him, am I judging too quickly?

Those questions are what always drive me to pursue...I just wonder, is it really so simple to say that a true Taken in Hand man will pursue a lady he wants? Or is modern society just far too complex for there to be one answer for every situation?

Do some of our dream men need to be reassured that they're allowed to be themselves? Or, do we Taken in Hand ladies need to stand our ground and wait for a man who knows he should do the chasing?"

There are so many points I want to touch on in response to this. First I think that, yes, there may be a very good chance you might pass up on a Taken in Hand man if you wait for him to lead. The thing to remember is—all you have to do is throw that first hint in a case like this and if he is the man you seek, he will take it from there. Modern society is far too complex for there to be one answer to every situation. I believe that your "dream man" may need to be assured in this case—not that it is okay to be himself, but that you want him to be himself.

What you have to know about some men (obviously can't speak for all of us), especially the men you seek, is that the wheels are turning in their heads as much as in yours when you make that initial eye contact, or whatever online "gesture" may be applicable per your scenario. But because of what negative-feminism has indoctrinated into us, we are aren't as likely to walk over to you, grab the drink from your hand, put your cigarette out, throw you over our shoulders and carry you to the dance floor. We WANT to do that but we are hoping that you want it as much as we do. (If we didn’t care about what you wanted, would you even want us to begin with?)

Men have been socially castrated to the point of walking on eggshells in situations where historically it was expected that we proudly took the lead. What has become a tall order nowadays is for a man to simply relax in social situations. That can be easier said than done, even for the most alpha dog in the pack. He is keen enough to sniff out the qualities he seeks, but what you may perceive as his fear of rejection or lack of command could simply be him demonstrating the self-control that you also desire in him.

I know that this is a catch-22 for Taken in Hand women, but you have to try to empathize with what the 2010 male has been reduced to socially. You can choose to "stand your ground and wait for a man" but in doing that you may just end up with a narcissist who is acting solely on his hormones when he tries to whisk you away.

What about a Secret Handshake?

I find it interesting that we are posting and reading comments on a site that has been in existence for several years now and is read by people from around the world. This would seem to indicate that many people are interested in the idea of a Taken In Hand relationship. And yet...there seems to be great difficulty in finding those interested for the purpose of having actual Taken In Hand relationships. What if there was some simple way of acknowledging this interest (i.e. some "secret handshake, password or wearing a certain color by the third date" etc.)? Some "old school" methodology of indicating our allegiance, along with the helpful and informative information that is already being disseminated through this site would go a long way toward helping people to "see the light." Any thoughts?

On the secret handshake

This made me smile! On a purely practical level you'd want to be able to identify takeninhand-minded persons long before you'd got to the handshaking stage. Ideally we'd want to pick out a colleague passing in the corridor or someone waiting for the same train, and that basically means clothing or jewellery.

I can tell you what I look for in a woman—an ankle chain is a big giveaway, a tight-fitting necklace, a string of pearls also says "inclined to be taken" to me provided they're not dangly. Bracelets can also be an indicator. Obviously there's no guarantee such a woman is actually available or looking for a man but it's a good start: you can but say "Hi" and find out. (I also find clothing which slightly hobbles a woman a big turn on, eg a pencil skirt. So, paradoxically, a mini-skirt is officially "sexy" but doesn't send the "takeninhand-inclined" message.)

Perhaps some women could post here what messages men's clothing sends to them. I suspect it's altogether less informative unfortunately.

The Secret Handshake

Marcus, your post nearly made me weep. I am not a traditional looking woman. I never wear jewelery or skirts, I have short(ish) hair and I like leather and studs. No I'm not into BDSM. Please, someone, tell me there are men out there who wear black jeans and leather jackets who might want a Taken-in-Hand relationship with someone who could perhaps be described as looking 'alternative'. Otherwise I may shoot myself!!!

Pull yourself together Polly

Pull yourself together Polly—there's bound to be just the man you're looking for somewhere; tears are not required! But there is a risk that if you go around dressed like that, some are not going to think you're a woman wanting to live under the control of a man and will pass you by. Perhaps you should accessorize. I'm sure a string of pearls would go well with a leather jacket and give people who had you wrongly pigeonholed pause for thought.

Image fascism

LOL! Thank you for the advice. I will begin my search for a suitable string immediately—and maybe a tiara to go with it.

Visuals are clearly important here. I had failed to take on board that the emphasis on ‘traditional’ might also extend to the outer image, for some men. This may account for why some men, although clearly attracted to me, wait for me to make the first move—which I invariably do not. If a man does not have the drive and confidence to approach me then he is not the man I’m looking for. I have learned through experience that, if I have to make the move, this dynamic will be present in many other ways later on.

Surely there must be other ways I can communicate to someone that I am available to be led? What kinds of things does a Taken In Hand man do and say to test the waters when he first meets someone? What kinds of responses is he looking for? Obviously all men are different, but there will also be similarities. I would appreciate any advice on the subject.

By the way Marcus, I have no experience of Taken In Hand—maybe you can tell that from the nature of my reply—but I did feel a frisson at your stern tone. Thank you.

Polly

To Cinderella - yes, there's

To Cinderella—yes, there's a certain amount of "holding back" that can occur. I for one am very aware of how overpowering I can be, so there's always this little voice in the background saying "tread lightly"...

I'd love to be powerful and take-charge right from the start, but that's not "me". I have to settle into it, and know that when I do take charge of her at any given point, she's going to like it, and trust me enough to go with it. First date is not a place where I know that's going to be welcome.

It would be nice if there was some way to cut through the socially acceptable garbage, and really start to get to know each other right away. Only, that leaves you both so very vulnerable...

And Polly—yes, unfortunate as it is, sometimes appearance can be important. It can also be deceiving. A lot of people dress a certain way as a reaction to something in their lives—some people who feel vulnerable will dress in a way that screams "POWERFUL" for example. I'm not suggesting that you're one of them, but bear in mind that how we dress does say a lot about us. The problem is, 99% of men are crap at reading signs, or body language.

I agree!

I would expect a man to pursue me rather than me have to chasing him otherwise, yes, I do think it could be the same in the future with other decisions too.

To Sonja

@Sonja: "So many times, women complain that they want a real man, but they have an intolerance for the behavior of real men and reject the whole package."

So true. Even more, I have met more than a woman who was remarking she was comfortable around men, having been around them for a while. What these women fail to realize is that almost all men are used to sugar-coat their behavior as soon as there are women around (I guess the same happens to women when there are men around). But as soon as I started to behave like a men among men, without any sugar-coat, they crackled.

Interestingly, I've never heard such a remark from women who really seem comfortable around men.

@Sonja: "When talking to men, I throw out bread crumbs along the trail. If they pick up on them, I throw out more. If they fail to see the trail, I move on."

Well, then you should make sure that such "bread crumbs" are visible to men. I can testify that many women think they are making their interest obvious, while they are not. For me, I have been raised among women, and thus a woman smiling to me, caressing me and similar things, she is just behaving like all other women.

@Sonja: "Reading his profile and saving him to my favorites has been more than sufficient to indicate a possible interest for the right man."

This is true only if you are on a matching site. Then adding his profile as a favorite of yours is an obvious "bread crumb".

As a closing note, I'd like to let women know that sometimes if they feel we are ignoring them, that's just because we are busy with our fight for life, and not in romance mode.

Pursuing

I too think that the man must be the pursuer or hunter, if you will. For Taken in Hand folks I don't think it makes sense otherwise. That does not mean that a woman should just simply sit back and do nothing. It won't work. Not even the much-maligned Victorian ladies did that. There are quite a lot of things a woman can do to catch a man's attention without coming off as aggressive "macho-girl". Go talk to your grandmothers or some other old ladies. I know it sounds old-fashioned, but I did and was extremely surprised by the clever ways they made their interest in a man known.

I have to admit though that the problem with this is that men rarely understand subtle hints. You will very likely have to hit them with a ton of bricks. Catch-22 here.

Also nowadays, men don't seem to be interested in pursuing. I don't know many who are. They all seem to be "new men" interested in "new women".

@Marcus: I'm afraid I disagree with what you consider pointers that a girl could be interested in Taken In Hand. There is no set way a Taken In Hand woman dresses.

An ankle-chain does not scream Taken In Hand to me, it screams really bad 80's style. And pearls say "grandma-look" to many. Clothes and jewelry have different associations for different people and you can be really mistaken in your assumptions. Which is quite sad, because it could be so easy.

@Polly: If you like black jeans and leather, maybe a biker would be good for you? I have the feeling there are some take-charge guys there.

And this board is not only for "traditional" people (whatever that exactly means). I'd say there are a lot of people here who are definitively not politically or socially conservative. I certainly am not. Although I do consider myself a very traditional girl. Difficult, isn't it?

@Zephyr:
"What these women fail to realize is that almost all men are used to sugar-coat their behavior as soon as there are women around ... But as soon as I started to behave like a men among men, without any sugar-coat, they crackled."
Could you elaborate? How do you behave around women and how would you like to? Maybe from that men (and women) could get some pointers.

Jessica Rabbit

Yes, Zephyr, please enlighten

Yes, Zephyr, please enlighten us. You can't throw out an intriguing comment like that and not elaborate! I do hope the real man behavior you mentioned did not involve smelly bodily functions...

I agree, Mrs. Kiss. I hope he

I agree, Mrs. Kiss. I hope he doesn't mean sitting on the couch, guzzling tons of beer and in general behaving like a frat boy. But we'll give him the benefit of a doubt.

Jessica Rabbit

The man needs to be the pursuer

I must agree. In my experience, in trying to learn how to choose healthier men, meaning I perceive men who can't or won't take charge as unhealthy—if I chase, he changes, after initially making rotten moon cheese promises. I no longer feel I have to pursue that misery anymore.

When a woman pursues, a man will tell her anything to further his own agenda. It's just too easy for a man being chased to just "go with the unbelievable luck" of getting what he wants but not having to commit to it or do the work a real relationship requires. When a man pursues, it is much easier for a woman to determine if he is truthful about his intentions, whether he has ulterior motives or whether the intentions he says he has are true.

Men are genetically wired to hunt. If I pursue, I strip a man of that whole dynamic: I've essentially stripped him of his manhood. And I've actually set myself up to be used and dumped. I can determine a man's agenda much better if I leave it to him to do the pursuing or not as he wishes.

The tough part of standing aside and waiting for a man to act, and letting go if he doesn't... I've struggled with that for all my adult life. Even before I became an adult. I truly am a go-getter. But that dominant trait that is so much a bonus in my professional world, will kill amour in my personal life. I have learned, from hard experience, that to chase is to doom a potential relationship from the start for me. Even if a man might benefit from a little encouragement from me to pursue me or take charge, I refuse. I can't ever be sure he's only doing it because I "encouraged" him to do so. I can never be sure he acted of his own free will.

Part of the universal law of relationships is that there has to be free choice, not falling. Somehow, when a woman chases, falling happens. Somehow when a man chases, there is the necessary free choice. I want to be pursued, and I want my man to take charge on his own. I do not, in any way, want to have to be in control of his choices, ever.

This letting go of the chances of a relationship blooming because I "encouraged" allows me to not get so enmeshed in being alone now, waiting. I do not have to be so emotionally affected because I do not have a man in my life right now. Choice is the key. If every last man in the world is currently choosing not to pursue me, then I am currently choosing to live my life anyway, move on, be open and ready for the one who will choose when he's ready. And I am confident the right man will come along, as I am focusing on sending out signals that I want only that kind of man. If a man doesn't "get" my signals, he is not for me. The man who notices is the man for me.

Let him pursue you if you want a Taken In Hand relationship

If you are single and you want a Taken In Hand relationship, the man must be the pursuer and the woman must absolutely avoid any and all pursuing behaviours. That is not to say that if you are a single woman you should avoid smiling at men. On the contrary, if you don't smile at a man he is unlikely to strike up a conversation with you or start pursuing you because you will be seeming closed to him. There are men who will go up to a complete stranger who is not even smiling at them and ask for her number, but you might want to take a look at PUA (pickup artistry) websites and look at some "daygame" videos and posts before you make that the criterion of pursuit. Pickup artists are not looking for a Taken In Hand relationship. The man needs to be the pursuer, but you have to show him, by smiling warmly etc., that you are open to being pursued.

Every single woman wanting a Taken In Hand relationship should read Getting to "I Do", by Patricia Allen and Sandra Harmon. Whilst I don't agree with everything she says, and I think sometimes women can get a bit tied up in knots trying to follow Pat Allen's advice, what she says about the importance of not being the pursuer if you want to be the female energy in the relationship seems true to me.

If you are happy to wear the trousers in the relationship and be the one who does the pursuing, go ahead and pursue, ask men out, etc. But if you want a Taken In Hand marriage, do not pursue, do not initiate, do not do anything other than smiling warmly and responding positively if he speaks to you. If meeting men online, do not be the one to make the first contact. If you make the first contact, Pat Allen says, you will always be the pursuer. That may sound very annoying and possibly a lot of rubbish, and no doubt there are many exceptions, but if you want to maximise the chance that you will not end up in a relationship in which you are expected to wear the trousers, I do think this advice from Pat Allen is correct.

If you absolutely avoid initiating and pursuing, you can at least be sure that the man you are in a relationship with really wants you. And if he has the courage and the ability to purposefully pursue you, he might well be the kind of person who is able and willing to take charge in a relationship.

It is not that timid shy men can't take charge in a relationship. Many such men can and do, once they know that that is not unwelcome. But if you as a single woman initiate and pursue, you are more likely to attract men who prefer to be pursued—men who will feel more comfortable letting the woman wear the trousers, and you are also more likely to waste time dating men who aren't that into you but who don't mind having a short-term fling with you.

Narcissists enjoy being pursued by flocks of admiring females

In principle I like the idea of the man being the pursuer, but it just does not always work in terms of attracting the right man.

Maybe I'm "too fussy" as I've long heard, but well over 99% of the men I've met are ones that I have no interest in at all. And it always seemed to be the wrong ones that pursued me, and meanwhile, a man that I might be intensely interested in might not realize or even guess at my interest at all, unless I find some way of making it very clear.

I'm not sure at what point that kind of come-thither approach turns into "pursuing" but I do know that I'm not going to just sit around in miserable passivity pining helplessly after a man who seems unaware of my passion for him unless I find some way to make it very clear to him. Some men—especially those with a streak of narcissism, which often includes the most beautiful, seductive and charismatic men —do like to be flattered and wooed and admired and maybe even pursued. It's the whole 'peacock' thing that some very handsome and sexy men have going on—they want to be able to show off their own beauty, and attract a flock of admiring females.

If you want a narcissist lazyboy Dom type, by all means pursue

If you want a narcissist lazyboy Dom type or a pickup-artist (PUA) player peacock type rather than a manly, take-charge man willing and able to handle you and love you in the long term, by all means pursue. But to imagine that a long-term relationship—let alone a Taken In Hand relationship—would be sustainable or even possible with a narcissist/peacock/player/lazyboy Dom type, would be unrealistic.

If you want a man with the ability to conquer you and actively keep you firmly in hand in the long term, frustrating though it may be, I still think it would be a mistake to pursue. As I said before, I am not saying hide any hint of interest—not at all! But what many women do is actively pursue—doing most or all of the calling, being the one to issue all or most of the invitations to the man or making too many suggestions or doing too much arranging of dates, etc, giving him too many gifts, giving too much too soon, etc.

I am of course only talking here about the issue of finding a man: I am not saying that even when you have found the right man for you, you should still never be active. When you are married and in a stable and wonderful relationship it is easier to indulge your active go-getter side without driving your man away, because you have a shared history together and are both invested in the relationship, and the man has a better context in which to interpret your actions.