Taken In Hand works best when it is organic

Why do rules often not function the way some couples new to Taken In Hand expect? The core difficulty may be confusion of means and ends. In theory, rules become a means to an end. The desired end is a secure – and, therefore, a solid – relationship. When that does not happen, then frustration occurs because the rules get in the way of achieving the desired goal.

Another difficulty is that the concept of rules is borrowed from a source. If one considers that marriage and family are primal, then, rules borrowed from more complex structures may become burdensome. They simply do not fit the purpose.

Taken In Hand is much like sex. It works best when it is organic.

A couple can have textbook perfect sex and still have a rotten marriage. The same is true for Taken In Hand. It is simply one of those things which unlike – combinations of flour, sugar, milk, and eggs – cannot be put into a book of recipes for all to use with marvelous success.

Instead, successful Taken In Hand has to originate from within the couple.

As I pointed out before, I almost ruined my marriage by trying to do follow socially acceptable rules of engagement. It took my wife showing me this is what women need to straighten them out before I could even come close to saving our marriage.

For Taken In Hand to be successful, a man must get inside the woman's mind. If he fails to do that, the rest is wasted effort.

I found formalized rules to be burdensome. Instead, things have worked best for my wife and me when we simply did what was necessary to work out our difficulties at the time things needed to be straightened out.

Noone

Taken In Hand Tour start | next

Have you seen the following articles?
Real life leadership or rules and rigidity?
Are you controlling the wrong things?
BDSM rituals and rule-bound relationships
The importance of a flexible husband
Getting beyond rules; peeking behind the veil
Why we rejected rules and punishment in our Taken In Hand relationship
The crooked path to where we are
Taken In Hand is low-key and private, not a 'lifestyle'
Is Taken In Hand about discipline?
Throw out the rules!

2009 Nov 18 - 09:49 | add new comment | latest article | previous article | next article |

careful of generalizing

Noone, I always enjoy your posts--until I get to comments like "this is what WOMEN [as opposed to a particular woman or women] need to straighten them out," etc. The constant assumption that all or almost all women want a Taken in Hand relationship keeps me from enjoying your writing. As you know, there are plenty of women who do NOT want to be taken in hand out there. Taken in Hand is a choice for people who want it, and we can't assume that the majority of women who DON'T want a Taken in Hand relationship just don't know what they want.

by a Taken In Hand reader on 2009 Nov 19 - 20:17 | reply to this comment

all women

I am not sure all women want a Taken In Hand relationship, but I do think families would function better if all men were HOHs and women and men fulfilled the role for which they were created. I just think nature's plan is still the best plan. It is too bad we women were hoodwinked in the 60s and 70s to believe that we can do it all and have it all and that nothing had to give. The poor men of the world were forced to deny their very nature. This has had a devastating effect on society as a whole. How sad. I think that some women who feel they would hate a Taken In Hand marriage might find their feminity again if they gave it a try. What a freeing, liberating feeling to be allowed to be a woman. Thank God for my HOH and for men like Noone who aren't afraid to be who they are, thereby allowing us to the privlege of being who we are.

by a Taken In Hand reader on 2009 Nov 20 - 14:18 | reply to this comment

Summation, Not an Exposition

The referenced quote was a paraphrase from my wife's show-and-tell and simply referred to the fact that - as noted in previous posts on the subject - a man's hand usually proves inadequate for overcoming a woman's psychological defenses. Moreover, my post was originally intended as a compendium rather than a definitive elucidation.

by Noone on 2009 Nov 21 - 01:30 | reply to this comment

What Women Want Is Not Always What Marriages Need

A few years ago, during a discussion, a Ph.D. observed that feminism may prove to be an accident of history spawned by a coincidence of events that will prove imposing to sustain or replicate.

Likewise, a female journalist during the Soviet era wrote that American feminists needed to be spanked by men for their insufferable arrogance. In particular, she noted, feminists failed to realize that their independence from men was precariously tied to good-paying jobs - which she correctly predicted would not last.

Unless she is young and naïve, a woman wants honesty from a man. As noted in a earlier post on a different thread, I have come across numerous women on the web and in life who are not nearly as perturbed by being honestly told they need a spanking as weak men trying to get into their panties.

Perhaps the greatest lesson I learned from my wife is that woman will cooperate when she thinks that a man is acting in her best interest. Difficulty is sitting does not bother a woman nearly as much as being ignored.

The great tragedy of the current political environment is that women have to, temporarily at least, pull men into their world and teach them how to *take charge.* Because of this fact of life, taking a woman in hand appears to be a choice when - in reality - it is much more visceral.

Yet, in time, time honored traditions will return. While would-be feminists will curse the day, more rational women will rejoice.

by Noone on 2009 Nov 22 - 00:56 | reply to this comment

hmm

I am really glad that you and your HOH have a happy marriage, and I don't mean to be too judgmental. It is really easy to feel like, "what I want feels really natural to me, so it must be natural and good for everyone and come from God and be the way everyone would be happiest." I'm sure I do that too, with some things. But do you really think that all the women out there who aren't like you are hoodwinked? That seems not to make sense, since even among the different women on this site there are lots of different needs and wants. And do you think that they are all out of touch with their femininity and not (or don't feel like) "real" women? I feel like I meet a lot of feminine women who love being women, and most of them are not in taken-in-hand relationships. Some are single and some are even (gasp) lesbians. It doesn't make sense to me to think that they are all just kidding themselves or are acting against nature or something.

by a Taken In Hand reader on 2009 Nov 22 - 08:11 | reply to this comment

I agree to be careful of generalizing

Not all women (or men, or whoever) want a particular relationship. Not all women want a Taken In Hand relationship, and among the ones who do, not all want the same type. I actually think this is what Noone was trying to get at when he said it had to be organic from the couple - not everything works for every person, so you need to do what works for you instead of trying to follow a script. I do take issue with the "what women need" quote, though. Even if you were paraphrasing your wife, Noone, you could have said, "This is what [some] women need." It retains her words without generalizing. I think it's a good post aside from that, though.

And to the person who said all men should be HoHs - I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. When women and men are forced into rigid gender roles not because they chose those roles for themselves, but because another person or society says, "Women/men have to be this/that." then it actually prevents a lot of people from being themselves. Personally, I'm glad I can freely CHOOSE to be in this kind of relationship instead of having it be something that's forced on me because that's how things are supposed to be, or whatever.

by Becky on 2009 Nov 22 - 08:56 | reply to this comment

all men?

I don't think all men want to be HOHs. Some are entirely unsuited to taking on this role. I know my late father would have been absolutely horrified by the very idea. He hated either giving or taking orders, and believed very strongly that everyone should do their own thing. The idea of anyone having authority over anyone else was anathema to him.

If all women wanted Taken In Hand relationships then I actually think it would be disastrous, because I don't think there are enough men who really want to be HOHs to go around. There would be an awful lot of unsatisfied women, and men.

Louise

by Louise C on 2009 Nov 23 - 08:36 | reply to this comment

If all women wanted Taken In

If all women wanted Taken In Hand relationships then I actually think it would be disastrous, because I don't think there are enough men who really want to be HOHs to go around. There would be an awful lot of unsatisfied women, and men.

I'm new to this site and I haven't yet made up my mind as to whether or not all women want a Taken In Hand relationship (I'm leaning towards no, but I'm keeping an open mind). However, it's my observation that there are an awful lot of unsatisfied women and men.

by Joris on 2009 Nov 29 - 03:11 | reply to this comment

How does a husband get inside his wife's mind?

I'm always annoyed when people take a sentence out of a whole article and blow it up into something it wasn't intended to be...

I thought your article was interesting, as a whole. I've struggled with having strict rules for my wife, and every time we've tried, it's fizzled out. I think you're on to something, and I'll have to give it some thought.

How does a husband get inside his wife's mind? I would be interested in your thoughts on that, as well.

by a Taken In Hand reader on 2009 Dec 2 - 16:22 | reply to this comment

Generalizations

After two failed marriages I was forced to take a humbling look at the realities behind relationships. As a well-educated woman at first glance, concepts like this were hard to swallow. I must admit that If I had been taken in hand during my first marriage, i do not think there would have been the destruction and diminishment of desire on the part of my spouse and hence, a second marriage would never have come to be. Why do we repeat the same behaviors over and over again somehow expecting that the results will be different the next time we attempt them?

by Addie on 2009 Dec 5 - 14:37 | reply to this comment

Re: What women want is not always consistent with marriage

The current cultural climate is indeed unsustainable...I very strongly agree with this post. I have seen many of my professional female friends, when first married, continue on with the charade of having dual roles within the home until children arrive and ultimately change the dynamics of those roles. Try pumping breast milk in between clients. Many struggle with the dual roles of children and work..We are at an unprecedented point in history where women feel that we have not the men to bring us protection, safety and provision. I ask myself why would love in an egalitarian marriage be enough to hold together a relationship that is explicitely absent of polarity and mutual need. My great-grandmother once correctly observed that the turning point in history came before the 60's and 70's. The beginning came during the second world war when many women went out into the work force to assist in the war effort. The sexual licentiousness of the 60's birth control movement contributed to the current cultural trend by removing any social taboo related to sexuality. Whence men no longer had any responsibilty toward women and their virtue, they no longer had an obligation toward the commitment and protection of women. In this way, history, culture and biology coincide in their contributing factors in regard to the ultimate demise of traditional cultural values while also creating mutual relational misery and chaos.

by Addie on 2009 Dec 6 - 17:27 | reply to this comment

Women in the workforce

Women have always been in the workforce, it isn't something that started in WW2. The majority of women have always had to work for a living, not from choice, but from sheer necessity and in order to survive. The big difference is that in past times work was seen as something you did if you needed to, what is fairly new is the notion that it is essential to have a job outside the home in order to make you happy.

In past times, hardly anybody worked if they didn't have to, male or female. For instance, in her autobiography, Agatha Christie described the life led by her father at the turn of the last century:

It was the days of independent incomes, and if you had an independent income you didn't work. You weren't expected to. I strongly suspect that my father would not have been particularly good at working anyway.

He left our house in Torquay every morning and went to his club. He returned, in a cab, for lunch, and in the afternoon went back to the club, played whist all afternoon, and returned to the house in time to dress for dinner. During the season, he spent his days at the Cricket Club, of which he was President. He also occasionally got up amateur theatricals. He had an enormous number of friends, and loved entertaining them. There was one big dinner party at our home every week, and he and my mother went out to dinner usually another two or three times a week.

At the same time that people with money were leading these leisurely lives, hundreds of thousands of women toiled in domestic service, in factories, in shops, in the clothing industry etc. They needed to earn money in order to survive. It was necessity that obliged them to work. Over a million women were employed in domestic service in the UK at this time for example. They weren't waiting for a war to go to work.

Louise

by Louise C on 2009 Dec 7 - 17:01 | reply to this comment

rules or organic relationships

Rule creation seems to be one of the many avenues that couples take when first entering the world of a male-led relationship. It may not work as they hope or expect but it is something many couples try in the early stages. Rules give the husband the opportunity to practice wielding his authority in a tangible way and the wife the opportunity to experience his authority.

I think that the use and discarding of rules is often a way station on the journey.
As Noone points out-
‘the desired end is a secure and solid relationship.’
Every journey must begin with the first step. Even a faltering one.

When the desire for a Taken In Hand relationship is not mutually agreed upon from the beginning of a relationship, it seems to me that progress is unlikely to be smooth.

I think that whilst the ‘aha’ moment, when it all makes sense, may not occur simultaneously, many husbands and wives have the capacity to nurture a belief that anything is possible.

Trust and a deep, abiding love for each other is an important ingredient. I suspect that Noone would not have been able to ‘get inside’ his lovely wife’s mind without her belief in his capacity to care.

In as much as mutual love and trust does come from within, it is therefore, by definition organic. A relationship predicated on this foundation striving to overcome their hitherto held beliefs about relationship dynamics to becoming a Taken In Hand couple, is in fact, organic.
Cheers
Nartie

by Nartie on 2010 Feb 20 - 00:40 | reply to this comment

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