Spanking is for discipline, not foreplay

Spanking is for discipline, not foreplay

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When I first came to Taken In Hand, I read through the various posts. I noticed that some people were talking about the idea of spanking and discipline as fantasy or erotic foreplay to sex. Some women long for a man, strong and true, to use spanking on her, but could wanting this encourage bad behavior? Foreplay and sex is one thing, but spanking should be a serious matter. Though spanking can lead to great sex later, the sex should come out of appreciation and love from a firm spanking, not a soft erotic spank.

Now, to me, it's one thing to want a strong man you know you can depend on to put you in your place on occasion. It's another to want a man to use practices meant for discipline as erotic ways of foreplay or fantasy. To me the idea of being taken in hand and corrected by your man is important. It establishes the authority of the man over the woman in the home. It must be used sparingly and honestly so that the woman knows he is doing this out of love, not lust. When a man spanks his wife, he shouldn't be thinking about sex, he should be determined to discipline and correct them. Spanking also should be followed by direct communication. His proper domination over his wife should make her grateful to him and want to please him or do the right thing. That could then lead to sex, not because she enjoyed the pain of spanking, but because she is hot for her strong, responsible man who just disciplined her. The act of spanking is not meant to be pleasurable; it's meant to wake someone up. As if saying, “This is not a game, you had better listen to me and change your attitude!”

Hopefully spanking will not be necessary because the man and woman should talk things through. Men need to know their wife well enough to determine if spanking is appropriate.

There are some women out there who have no intention of being corrected: such a woman may turn the tables on her husband by claiming abuse or assault. With the amount of injustice to men in the courts, a woman can easily use the police to damage her husband and get him put in jail on false accusations. So a man must be careful about the frame of mind of his wife before using spanking as discipline. It is also widely known that many women fantasize about being raped. When women get into these types of fantasies, it is destructive and not healthy to serious relationships. I think couples need to be very careful not to cross moral lines when playing out fantasies.

A woman who knows her husband is reluctant to use forceful discipline, like spanking, should tell him that she is open to it. Men need reassurance that she will respect his authority. However, if there is a woman who takes too much pleasure in spanking, and maybe uses bad behavior to get a reaction out of her husband, then she is asking for trouble. That sort of foreplay won't last forever and by the time the joy of the fantasy is expended, then they both will likely not take real spanking or discipline seriously. What happens when the husband is serious but she wants nothing to do with his discipline? She can't just say, “Oh I have a headache, not tonight dear” or “You'd better not lay a hand on me, I am not wrong.” Spanking is an establishment of authority and an act of discipline.

Spanking is meant to correct bad behavior, not to encourage it. Use spanking the way it's meant to be, for discipline and not for fantasy. Maybe women should not dwell on the fantasy of being spanked. Instead, appreciate and encourage your husband to communicate authority the best way he knows how. I believe once the woman is respected and knows her place next to her husband's authority, she will want to be held close in his loving arms, in and out of bed. For the loving act of spanking is not a kinky feeling, but a painful reminder on her bottom that the head of the home requires a change, and if words won't get that point across, a strong, caring hand should.

Ramileous

Comments

I'm glad you raised this subject

I often wonder about how to distinguish between erotic spankings and discipline spankings. It's confusing because there is an erotic element to being disciplined. You expressed it well when you wrote of being "hot for her strong responsible man who just disciplined her". Anything that makes me aware of my husband's authority over me is a turn on.

For me this issue is further confused because we used to do erotic spanking before we developed into a domestic discipline relationship. That is how it started. I realized that I didn't just want to play games about spanking, I needed my husband in charge for real.

I'm looking forward to reading the insights of others on this.

JK

Deja Vu all over again

There are now MANY excellent articles on this site addressing the differences between and desirability of both erotic and non-play (I won't say non-erotic) spankings, not to mention being taken in hand in both those ways without spanking. Granted, it is not an obligation to read everything archived here before writing, but as I cringed through such statements as, "When a man spanks his wife or his child [YIKES!], he shouldn't be thinking about sex," or "Hopefully spanking will not be necessary because the man and woman should talk things through," I kept thinking, "been there, done that... why doesn't he read what's already been written?"

As an aside, and again this is not an original observation, the spanker may or may not have sex per se on his mind at the moment, but there is little doubt that it is an inherently erotic act between a man and a women. Hopefully it WILL be necessary, again and again, for all manner of real and perceived offences, because I for one love it! "For the loving act of spanking is not a kinky feeling"... It can be loving and kinky at the same time. What's wrong with a little kink?

Which brings me to my last point. The author asks, "What happens when the husband is serious but she wants nothing to do with his discipline?" Who was it here who first coined the phrase, "Blanket Consent"? In our house, when my husband says it's time for a spanking, I have agreed not to resist but--if necessary--protest my innocence afterwards. I trust him to know when it's the right time. He is fair and kind enough to admit if he misjudged the situation. Nearly always we DO discuss things after the fact, more calmly than we used to, and nearly always he has been spot-on in determining when an affectionate "intervention" was called for in order to restore domestic equilibrium. It is a practical, rational, mutually-respectful arrangement, which nonetheless does not preclude the fun kind of spanking as "kinky" foreplay.

All types of spankings

There are so many different types of spankings, just labeling them as either "erotic" or "disciplinary" is far too restrictive.

There are erotic-playful and erotic-painful spankings, light slaps and really hard canings. Erotic spankings before, during and after sex. There are "brat" spankings where both the participants are playing around and everyone knows the resulting spanking is for pure fun. There are reassurance spankings, where the spankee might push a little to make sure the head of the household is still on top and in charge. There are very light, over-the-clothes propriatary spankings where the head of the household wants to remind the spankee of where they stand. As for disciplinary, there are all kinds of punishment spankings: for being disrespectful, disobeying, for outright fighting, in all levels of harshness of gentleness according to the needs of the spankee and the spanker.

And there are so many varied results from these spankings I won't even go into it.

There have been oodles of posts/articles about when to do it and when not to do it. I've read that spanking should never be done before sex because we moronic women might start "acting out" like Pavlov's dog in order to receive the required attention, to some people who believe it's wrong to ever use spanking erotically in any way whatsoever so help you God, to even more people who believe disciplinary spankings in a relationship are completely outrageous and spankings should ONLY be used erotically in an official BDSM "scene".

All kinds of opinions. Bottom line: do what you enjoy and what works for *you*. Live and let live.

As far as my husband and I go, we are pretty relaxed about it all. If it happens for one reason one day, it doesn't mean it might not happen for another reason the next. As long as we both are happy and content, that's really all that matters. :-)

good discussion

Thank you JK, claire and Amber for your comments. I admit I have not read all that has been written from the beginning on this site. I just come to read and share my thoughts and learn a few things too, but I don’t think ill be able to read everything written.

I really liked your post Amber, there are so many different forms of spanking. Every family should be happy, and thus try to make responsible decision on how they do things, so it just comes down to communicating what works. Keep in mind, I have not been married yet so I stand to learn a thing or two yet on ideas of spanking. I just feel right now that it’s an important part of discipline, not to be taken for granted.

JK, you started out with spanking for fun, pleasure, then later developed into more serious, discipline spanking. Interesting you say that, perhaps when we are younger we don’t want to be spanked for discipline, we want freedom and enjoyment. Then as we get older it begins to dawn on us that there is a greater reason for spanking, and perhaps we should not take its purpose for granted.

I think political correctness and social change has also made spanking less fashionable. Some even say a parent cannot spank a child for discipline because its abuse, on and on it goes. It all comes down to what Amber says, each family needs to decide what works for them. Both husband and wife must agree, with the husband taking the lead. Let me add that I think the word of God should be first and foremost in the decisions that are made on what is best for the family and when to spank and when not to.

Thanks for the comments ladies,

Jerry

www.ramileous.com

How 'bout them Eskimos?

Jerry,

for my own answer, I refer you to the Maximovich-patented Eskimo analogy .

Or, to answer your question ("How can spanking possibly be used as discipline, if it becomes a part of sexual fore-play?") I might pose a question of my own: "If kissing your wife is an inherently sexual act, isn't kissing your kids good-night child abuse?" The same simple physical act (placing lips to skin or hand firmly to bottom) can have many different meanings in different circumstances—even when it is the same people involved in each case.

My own two cents

First of all, I find the comment that spanking should be for punishment only as unacceptable as the idea that sex should be for reproduction only. If the only way I could get a spanking was to act out, I assure you I would quickly locate that red button, and push it often. (Yes, I know that last comment flys in the face of the whole DD philosophy.) Sometimes I just need a good spanking to help me unwind from the day.

And I do think that spankings can be given under many circumstances, for many reasons without causing confusion to the spankee. Many actions in life have various interpretations depending on the context, take for example a honking horn, it could be a warning, an expression of anger, an attept to get ones attention, or a simple hello, depending on the context. A raised voice could mean anger, excitement, a hearing deficit on the part of either the speaker or the listener, or a necessity due to other loud noises in the same area. A small child taken in his parents arms and soundly smacked on the bottom to stop a temper tantrum could be thrown over the same parents shoulder at another time and playfully smacked on the bottom while laughing wildly, again the action needs to be seen in the whole context. (No, I'm not advocating spanking children, it's just an example ok????) You don't have to agree with me if you don't want to.... just my opinion.

Out of our hands....

This has certainly sparked some lively discussion. I like that, as I always walk away with more knowledge.
Your article speaks of spankings being misunderstood (by the recipient)if they are given as correction and for erotic benefit. I am a fairly intelligent and well adjusted individual, and I don't think I've ever misunderstood why I was getting spanked. Also, I don't particularly "like" spankings, which promotes a better attitude and behavior. However, I have absolutely no control over biology. That biology, when in a spanking position, places my center of erotic sensation directly beneath that which is getting whacked.
I have never confused my husband spanking me, because I've stepped over the line, with him making a pass at me. I like when he makes a pass. I do not like when he spanks me.
Sorry for rambling. I'm very new to speaking about this. Thanks, Ellie

Great post ellie

Ellie, that was a very telling post.

So do you feel that spanking for erotic pleasure is an ok thing to do (in marriage)? Based on what you said, it seemed you were never confused as to why your husband was spanking you. I see what your saying and realize that circumstances at the time (anger or desire) leave little room for confusion as to why he is spanking her. So then there is rarely ever confusion as to the reason for the spanking between a married couple. So does a woman, who enjoys the erotic spankings, also take the mans authority and discipline spankings seriously? Or does she just decide if she wants it or not, as if she has the authority to decide and he doesnt. I guess it all depends on the level of respect between the husband and wife.

Right now, my idea is that only spanking out of frustration, to correct a womans behavior, is appropriate. However you have to understand that I grew up craving fantasy, roleplaying and erotic sexual behavior. Its fun, but I have seen how it can confuse relationships and damage emotions in the long run. Now, as a growing Christian, I believe so strongly in responsible, loving discipline and rules. So the idea of spanking seems like it should be solely for correction. I guess that gives people an idea of where I am coming from in my thought process.

If people enjoy erotic spanking in marriage, I guess who can blame them for doing it if it helps build fire in their marriage. I just worry that it could cause problems later if there is a time for serious spanking. Its up to the maturity of the couple to decide what is appropriate then? Believe me, I dont have it figured out, I am here to learn too. My first post is where I am in my opinion. Thats why this is a great website, it offers room to discuss and learn about an important issue in our lives. We all have passions, fantasies. For me its deciding what is appropriate and what is not.

Thanks ellie for that post, it really made me think.

Jerry.

spanking out of frustration

Ram says, "Right now, my idea is that only spanking out of frustration, to correct a womans behavior, is appropriate. "

You see, in my book, that's about the only time when consensual spanking is not appropriate. I don't even mind spanking children (non-consensual),
as long as it's not done out of anger and frustration.

Correcting behavior is fine, as long as you know why you are correct and she is not. To spank (or use any form of violence) because you are frustrated tells me you fail to rationalize, it tells me you can't win with intellect, so you use force. If my partner does that to me, even though I have consented for him to discipline me whenever he deems appropriate, I am going to be pissed.

-sudolly
-----------------------------
the belief in truth is precisely madness—Nietzsche

Confused

This:

it's one thing to want a strong man you know you can depend on to put you in your place on occasion. It's another to want a man to use practices meant for discipline as erotic ways of foreplay or fantasy. To me the idea of being taken in hand and corrected by your man is important.
seems to be contradicted by this:
For a wife, that could then lead to sex, not because she enjoyed the pain of spanking, but because she is hot for her strong, responsible man who just disciplined her.
So it's ok with you if the wife is aroused in this way, is it?

What's immoral in a fantasy?

It is also widely known that many women fantasize about being raped. When women get into these types of fantasies, it is destructive and not healthy to serious relationships.

Why?
I think couples need to be very careful not to cross moral lines when playing out fantasies.
I agree with this but why do you say this type of fantasy's immoral?

Not confused

I can, of course, only talk about me, but I have no problem in differentiating between playful, erotic and discipline spankings. Even if they happen within minutes of each other—which happened very recently. Mainly it's because hubby tells me what I'm being disciplined for and has a tone of voice he only ever uses then—we've actually talked about this, and he doesn't seem able to do it outside of discipling me.

I enjoy erotic and playful spankings a lot, but I do not enjoy discipline spankings. However, I would never try to get out of one. I may utter a word or two of very half-hearted protest, but that's it. In the interests of a good relationship, I have asked my hubby to help me with an aspect of my behvaiour that can be quite destructive both to me personally, and to the relationship. So however much I may feel on the surface that a discipline spanking may not be "fair", inside I know that it would be very unfair to pick and choose when he can and can't discipline me. However, if either of us felt it wasn't working, we would talk about it rather than either carry on blindly because that's what had been agreed, or try and wriggle out of it. Likewise, if he did genuinely misread the situation, then we would talk about it after the event—it hasn't happened yet—mainly because he has been very careful that he is discipling me for a valid reason, and not just a very brief glitch.

Actually, as a sort of afterthought to that part of this, the one exception is when my behaviour isn't what it should be because I either have, am about to get, or am getting over a migraine.

And back to the confused part. If a woman who enjoys erotic spanking has started to confuse discipline spankings with erotic ones, then the "problem" is unlikely to lie solely with her. It would suggest that there has been a breakdown in communication somewhere along the line—and that needs to be fixed fast. I don't think any relationship can survive in a healthy form if communications aren't working. Regardless of the framework, relationships that work are built on trust and honesty, give and take, communications and openness. If there is that confusion, then she needs to tell him that something isn't working—that she can't tell if he's trying to discipline or arouse her, and he needs to look at the verbal and non-verbal signals he's giving. At the risk of insulting people (and I apologise if I do, but it's late and I can't think of a better analogy right now...)—the HoR is like the trainer of a highly intelligent, hot blooded horse. If he uses the right aids and gives the right signals, things go along sweetly. Sure, there'll be playfulness and the odd problem, but by and large both will be joined up and working together. Use the wrong aids, give the wrong signals—or worse—give mixed signals, and you have a recipe for problems.

I think I may have waffled on long enough now—especially for a first post... so I'll stop :)

Thanks for commenting

It sounds to me, from reading people's posts, that it's not hard to have both discipline spanking and erotic spanking in a relationship. I thought that would be a problem due to confusion or misunderstanding, but apparently it is not. That is good news and you all have made perfect sense. Confusedofhome.. I really liked your post and it put much more in perspective. I think much of what has been said will help me in my future relationships in dealing with the subject of discipline, spanking.

Sudolly, Thanks for bringing that up. I agree with you that a man should probably not spank his wife when he is angry or frustrated. I don’t think a wife wants an angry man to spank her. She likely wants a calm, loving man to use his hand on her. Then she knows he is serious yet loving. She feels safe and the pain gives way to appreciation for his care for what she does and who she is. Hence her desire for him builds.

I think I was trying to make spanking a wife too much like spanking a child. Where it's more serious and there is no sexual connotation involved. Now I am realizing that it's silly to compare the two. A man spanking his wife has sexual implications but also has serious reasons. it’s a delicate and beautiful act when the couple are in one accord.

Because of the sexual nature of spanking a woman, I would say it belongs only in marriage. Obviously I believe that sex should be reserved for marriage, but can spanking be used responsibly outside of marriage in a relationship? If a woman and man is sexually charged by it, it probably is not a good idea. What do some of you all think about that?

spanking

It seems to me that erotic spanking implies hand to bottom. Disciplinary spanking implies the use of an implement such as a paddle or switch.

Both should be consensual, that is the husband and wife should agree that family discipline will be exercised in a particular manner. I saw a reference to a "spencer spanking plan" that said a wife should be hand-spanked by her husband for misbehavior and that a husband should be "whipped" by the wife for is misbehavior. The overall plan made a lot of sense to me---for folks who want their household to be set up that way.

I personally like the head of the household concept better, the totally equal idea isn't consistent with my experience. The wife may rule the kitchen and the children but be ruled by the husband in investment and budgetary items.

Different strokes...

Ramileous—glad my post was of some help :)

Regarding the spanking before marriage part—that I believe is down to the couple concerned and what their own beliefs are. It is also something I think should be discussed before you get to the "I do"s if it something you feel has to be part of your life. And as part of that dialogue, you may find that your partner wants a DD lifestyle/marriage, but find the idea of erotic spanking offputting. Bear in mind also that discipline spanking can lead to incredible feelings of closeness and connectedness that have nothing to do with sex. Personally speaking, I don't think I would want discipline spanking in anything other than a long term relationship—but again, that's just me :)

--

"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Hamlet, somewhere in the play.

Agreed!

This was a great comment, Frank. Very well thought out as usual and as always, pointing out the real reason why most of us do any of this in the first place: connection.

It would be wonderful for the boss to break it out as it's own article.

Erotic vs. discipline

I am entirely baffled by all this. Why on earth would this romulous person think a woman would let a man spank her if she didn't find it erotic? why would she want to get into a spanking relationship in the first place if it didn't turn her one? What on earth would be the point? I knew from a very early age that spanking was a turn-on for me. When I was a child, in the 1960s, there were plenty of images of children being spanked in books, tv etc, but they never did much for me. I can remember the effect it had on me the first time I ever saw an adult woman being spanked by an adult man—it was an episode of The Lone Ranger and the phrase "who was that masked man" has had a particular resonance for me ever since. I was about eight I think. Even at that age, I knew I wanted to be that woman. But this romulous person thinks women shouldn't like it, but should let me do it to them anyway. That's sick. He needs help.