Si vis pacem, para bellum
Si vis pacem, para bellum (which means: if you want peace, prepare for war) is good advice for any man aspiring to take his woman in hand. Not because she is unwilling—for if she is, then he should not do it—but because this Roman maxim expresses an insight about human psychology that he might need in this Taken In Hand adventure.
What does si vis pacem, para bellum mean in this context? It doen't mean get ready to do battle, or you'll have a fight on your hands, like in many conventional relationships. It is nothing to do with anything unpleasant, like fighting and bad feeling. It is about fun and adventure and excitement. It means that a man needs to be able to handle his wife. It means that in the event of any resistance he would be willing and able to act decisively, firmly and thoroughly. Rather than going into his cave, or having a tantrum, he would take action. He would take her in hand and set her straight.
Note that I say would. The counterfactual form was deliberate. Si vis pacem, para bellum means that by being prepared to be firm, to take her in hand, to take action, he makes it much less likely that he will encounter resistance or rebellion in the first place.
In an intimate relationship, what many a Taken In Hand women wants is to feel certain that whatever happens, her husband is not in any danger of being overpowered by her. She doesn't want to have to tip-toe around all the time lest she inadvertently crush him. She wants to be able to be fully herself instead of having to tone herself down all the time, and she wants to know without any doubt that her husband can handle her, even the full her in all her power. She needs to know this, otherwise she cannot relax, and never feels peaceful.
Being able to handle her implies being prepared to take action in the event that the woman gets out of hand. Whining and complaining will not cut it. Nor will rage or spiteful comments calling into question her femininity, her womanhood, or (if she regards herself as submissive) her submissiveness. Such responses seem weak and passive. She needs to feel that her man is active and strong—stronger than she.
The action necessary depends on the individual woman, the individual man, and how they interact with each other. For some, the physical manifestation of the man's power is important; for others, it is the psychological aspect that is more important.
But the idea that the woman will necessarily be constantly fighting and resisting her husband's control for ever even though she wants a Taken In Hand relationship with him is, as I have argued before, untenable. The knowledge that her husband can and will take firm and thorough action to enforce his will releases the Taken In Hand woman from the need to resist. She can relax. She feels safe. She is no longer consumed with the fear that she might overpower him. She doesn't need to keep fighting for ever and ever until death do them part. The tamed shrew is at peace—but only when she has been tamed. Recall Kate's monologue in The Taming of the Shrew.
Some men have a commanding presence without even trying. Like my favourite teacher at school, some never actually have to take any action, because they naturally command obedience. But in most cases, the woman might need some kind of evidence that he is strong enough not to let her walk all over him. Words are not always enough. Actions speak louder than words. Weak words begging and nagging the woman to be more submissive or obedient are unlikely ever to be enough.
The man who calmly takes his woman's resistance in his stride and takes firm and decisive action is the kind of man who can provoke in even the strongest, most alpha woman worshipful adoration and a wholehearted desire to submit. He is the man who truly knows peace. Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Comments
Thank you for this article, and this site!
Submitted by KAL on
I'm new to this site. I feel extremely at home here. I have especially enjoyed this article. For me, the "action necessary" is somewhat physical. And for me, the physical, always produces a feeling of sexual arousal.
That seems to be the case for my husband (obviously, physically I can tell) but he denies that it does anything gratifying for him sexually at all. Although I did bring it to his attention the last time, and he said he didn't even realize it. How is that possible?
He is extremely controlling, which I love, but he seems to be embarrassed to overtly demonstrate it unless I push him, and hence, I find myself pushing him more and more often. He is not unwilling to physically discipline me, but what happens is that he ends up saying later, "I knew you wanted it, that's why I did it." And what I want is for him to be able to enjoy it and not make it sound like I was ultimately in control. HELP, please!!! Any advice would be welcome.
My husband is much older than I am, (36 years older). He has no problem with the idea of a man being in charge, but he claims to get no satisfaction from this type of relationship. What do I do?
I love him, and I love serving him. But he's often passive-aggressive in his demands and what I need is for him to be overt with his control. He has it, he just doesn't demonstrate it in a way that is as fulfilling as it could be...
KAL
spanking and control
Submitted by Louise C on
My husband started spanking me initially because I wanted him to, and although he didn't find the actual spanking arousing, he definitely appreciated the effect that it had on me, in that sense he has always been aware that spanking was something that was to his benefit as well as mine. Spanking me might not do anything for him, but having me naked and wriggling over his knee definitely did.
He did however in the early years of our relationship feel a need to emphasise that he was doing it because I wanted him to, I think he felt a need to keep clear in his mind that this was not abuse, and that it was something I really desired. As time went on though and he got more comfortable with it he didn't seem to feel the need to do this any more. It is still important to him to know that I am submitting willingly,though, which is why I don't think he'd ever be comfortable with the 'blanket consent' thing.
Since we started having a Taken In Hand relationship though, there have been times when it has been clear to me that he has definitely got satisfaction out of walloping me when I have done something that really annoys him. There was an incident last Thursday for instance, which he was not able to address until last night, having been away working. It was one of those occasions when he applied the paddle with a vigour that left me in no doubt that he was taking out his annoyance on my bottom (which I much prefer to being shouted at, which is what he would have probably done pre-Taken In Hand). His habit is to give me ten extra-hard whacks to finish off with "Tonight you're going to get 15" he told me grimly last night, and I did, despite my whimpering protestations. That he actually seems to derive satisfaction from this is something that I have to appreciate makes our relationship more satisfying. I like knowing that he gets something out of it too!
Overt control doesn't seem to be something he has any problem with, and I think if it's something you really need perhaps you just need to talk it through with your husband a bit more? Maybe he needs more time to get into the spanking thing? It took quite a long time for my husband to get really comfortable with doing it, though no time at all for him to get comfortable with Taken In Hand, which he just seemed to take to naturally. Perhaps you just need to thrash things out a bit more?
It didn't work
Submitted by KAL on
I mean it really did not work to try to talk to him about it. He came home from work, I'd tidied up a bit, not as much as I could have I suppose, but I'd had a busy day also. I sat at his feet and rubbed them (something I used to do often in the early days of our relationship)and I tried to explain to him who I am and that I want to feel safe and secure and how much I trust him. And basically he told me everything I said was crap and that I'm truly sick and that if I had any clue who I really am, if it were the truth that I am naturally submissive then I would "just do" the things that I know are important to him without needing him to overtly be in control. With that he retreated into his emotional cave where he will be for at least 72 hours. I'm miserable. I feel ashamed, embarrassed and completely abandoned. Now what do I do?
Re: It didn`t work
Submitted by At on
I really don’t know what kind of advice I could give you, I`m not somebody who believes that age doesn`t make a difference. In my eyes it does, not 5 or 10 years but 20 or 30 years definitely make a big difference. Maybe he feels that he`s too old to start something new. Telling you that you should more or less read his mind on how to please him seems like the easy way out. You could just instead of trying to please him more, do little things to get on his nerves. Maybe it will bring out the dominance in him. I think if my husband wouldn`t have thought of it himself, I would`ve sooner or later said to him "Well, if you`re not willing to spank me, I guess I`m gonna have to find a real man to do it". For us that would’ve worked, I don`t know if it will for you.
Autumn
What to do now?
Submitted by J's Girl on
Oh Kal, I'm so sorry. It's a terrible feeling when you get the courage to speak up about what you want and how you feel and the one you love the most tells you there is something wrong with you.
Don't let him convince you that there is something wrong with you because there isn't. You're a perfectly normal for wanting the things that you want. You certainly are not 'sick', for there is nothing 'sick' about wanting your man to lead the household, be in control of your relationship, and protect you. I think some men confuse being naturally submissive with automatically agreeing to anything they want or never having a contrary opinion. Being naturally submissive means (at least to me) that you want your man to lead your house, your relationship, and to some degree, you. It means this need comes naturally, and isn't something you have to work excessively hard at. It doesn't mean you don't have an opinion, or that you don't need him to exert his control in whatever manner works for you. It's like some men don't realize that something happens in a woman's mind when their mans control is verbalized and acted upon. It isn't game playing, there is something necessary in the power exchange that makes a woman feel safe.
I don't want to walk all over my man, but I want it to be because he won't tolerate it, not because I restrain myself.
The problem seems to be his Kal. I would think perhaps he is insecure about his ability to meet your needs and instead of admitting (perhaps even to himself) that he feels inadequate, he redirects his feelings onto you and makes you the reason it won't work.
J's Girl
What I would do Kal, is leave
Submitted by stirbird on
What I would do Kal, is leave him. Even if he disagreed with you, there was absolutely no need for him to be gratuitiously and emotionally cruel, and life's too short to take that from anybody. He also sounds pretty emotionally ill if someone's reaching out to him sends him into hiding for 72 hrs. IMO, he's not a dominant, he's a lazy f**K who wants to imagine he's dominant while he sits back doing nothing to back up what he claims and watches some poor sub try to dom herself (it can't be done--and that's his whole point, he'd be scared shitless if he had to really dom a real submissive, so he pretends and makes sure you cannot win or convince him you're sub). Tons of these guys online, too, they're about the lowest common denominator of people attracted to bdsm. They flock to the kinky personals boards in droves, strutting around like peacocks pretending to be doms, until you ask them to actually do something dominant. Then poof! They vanish like a bubble! :)
Sounds like this guy is not only really set in his ways but also set in his ideas of how he sees you--probably it's "safe" and the big brave dominant is too scared to let you break out of your usual mold as if you did he might have to (gasp!) change himself. Unless you want to be miserable for the rest of your life for the sake of a principle (loyalty to someone who treats you like dirt), I strongly urge you to seek out someone who will appreciate you the way you are. And no I'm not trying to hit on you, I'm a submissive woman too. Who has seen WAY to many submissive women ruin their lives for selfish vanilla a--es like him. GRRR!!! What he's done makes me want to slap him silly--the putz!
To Kal
Submitted by Louise C on
I am sorry that your husband didn't go for the Taken In Hand thing. I can understand a man not wanting this kind of relationship because I have no belief that this is something that all men secretly desire, or that all men are naturally dominant or anything like that, but I think his reaction is a bit extreme. There's nothing sick about wanting this kind of relationship, it's a little strange to want somebody else to be in charge, but there are many stranger things that people can want in their relationships. You don't have anything to be ashamed of.
As for being naturally submissive meaning that you should just do things that are important to him without him needing to be overtly in control, he obviously hasn't read this article! The whole point about Taken In Hand is that it is a relationship where both partners are actively engaged. Maybe you could suggest that he read this article to give him a better idea about the whole thing? If it really is 'sick' to want this kind of relationship then there are an awful lot of sick women out there! It's fair enough that he doesn't want this kind of relationship if it is not his thing, but not really fair to attack you like that. You can't help wanting this any more than he can help not wanting it.
Thank you
Submitted by KAL on
And thanks to everyone who's written. I feel welcomed here and at home here, much more so than I feel in my own home sometimes.
It was wrong of him to attack me, and I, tearfully, told him how frightening it was for me to be completely honest with him and have him try to make me feel worthless and scared. I explained to him that I want to submit but it has to be done within a safe emotional place, not for the purpose of obtaining that safe place. At which point he said, "Well then, the only thing I think there is left to talk about is when you are leaving." Which he does not mean. We went to counseling once, before we got married and he admitted to the counselor that he threatened to leave in order to bring me to the point of tears and begging him to stay. Which I used to do, but don't do anymore.
I cannot, as someone said, dom myself. In the absence of his power I have nothing to submit to. I can't even begin to do all of what he wants me to do if I don't know what it is. I don't think he knows. He'll take physical action from time to time, but only on his terms, not because he'll do it "my way".
I felt really badly about myself, so I called my therapist and explained entirely honestly what happened, who I am, how I felt and asked him if he thought I was sick. He laughed. When he was done laughing he said, "No. I think you are finally on your way to being much more healthy. That isn't the relationship I would choose, but the way you are wanting it to happen is entirely healthy, not having it the way he seems to want to have it demonstrates to me your progress not that you are sick." I choose to take his opinion, because I know him well and trust him with my life, he is, fortunately very open-minded. The last therapist I had and quickly quit suggested the reason I had these feelings was because I had suppressed some sexual abuse as a child and wanted hypnosis for me. While I am the product of my past experiences, and I was abused, it wasn't sexual (until I married my first husband), and that type of dominance was not consensual and left me frigid for years. That was abuse. What I want now, I believe is just about as far as you can get from abuse.
I cannot leave my husband. I cannot. I don't want to, but I don't want to live like this either, but I cannot leave him. It isn't an excuse, it isn't anything like that. I cannot leave him. The damage he would do to my life is simply something I cannot afford right now. Long story short, my mother is dating my ex-husband. We have to go back to court for my daughter in the next few months. If I left, my husband would go to court and say horrible lies about me to get even with the hurt it would inflict on him if I left. I cannot do that to my daughter. I cannot go anywhere until I know she is safely out of a very bad situation. In the meantime, I really, truly love my husband and I want us to be happy. I think we could be. I'll do anything I can to save this marriage, but I also have needs and feelings. I may be submissive, but I am still a person.
RE: Thank you
Submitted by At on
How on earth do you think you`re gonna be happy with a man like that. He treats you like dirt and you still love him? The way you explained it he`s only gonna make you more unhappy and miserable. Somebody who would lie in court about you just so you wouldn`t get custody of your daughter ònly because of selfish reasons. That guy can`t be trusted and I damn sure woudn`t want to be submissive to somebody like that. If you can`t get out now than get out as soon as possible that`s the only advice I can give you. The biggest mistake you made was giving up that good paying job, the courts also look at how you can support your daughter. I don’t know how old she is, but don`t they ask the kids too what they want?
Autumn
The courage I needed to find
Submitted by KAL on
I did a bold thing yesterday, after spending a lot of time and thought about life and what the heck I'm doing with it. I would never have been able to do this without the help I have gotten here.
I, nervously, packed a few bags of essentials and had them sitting by the front door when he got home. He did not know what to say. He came to find me in the dining room, at the table with some articles I printed from this site (only because he has no computer skills at all). I quietly said, "I love you very much, and some of these articles explain me perfectly, some of them describe a lot about you, and some will explain to you why this marriage is not going to work the way you are trying to have it work. If you do not read them, I have to leave now, and I will not come back. If you read them and find no value, we should not have gotten married in the first place. I cannot submit to you because you scare me; it is that simple. You will never get what you want from me this way, and I will never get what I need under these circumstances."
I half thought he would walk out of the room and hold the door open for me. He looked stunned. I do not threaten to leave, so I think he knew I was serious. He said nothing, at all, just sat down and started to read. His eyes got bigger and bigger, and tears started pouring down his face. Thirty minutes later he looked at me and said, "Is there more to read? I'm so sorry. I did not realize how much pain my actions were creating and problems where we probably did not have to have any. I think I feel badly about who I am, and instead of admitting it, I punish you for it in destructive ways. I don't want you to leave. I love you, I just haven't liked me for the way I am. Maybe I can. Will you let us try? Do you think you can ever trust me like this?"
I said, honestly, "I don't know. I love you. I think I can if you do your part to help provide an emotionally and physically safe place. I am open to try, but to be submissive and give you that, is a gift to respect and not a one sided road of giving."
The rest of the evening was quiet. He read the articles over and over, and seemed to get something new from them each time he read them. It was the first time I felt that level of emotion from him. Nothing sexual, just comforting, but not entirely convinced. Time will tell.
My daughter is too young to be heard in court. But, as I thought about this yesterday, and his threats to ambush me and the level of crippling that does to the soul...I thought that it would be better to endure whatever he might say than to demonstrate to her that settling for misery was an example worth following. As difficult and painful as that would be, there are many good people who would come to support me and say true and positive things about me and my relationship with my daughter. She has seen some horrifying things in her young life, my thinking that staying in this will protect her was false and probably a way for me to hide from my fears of leaving him.
It was the most difficult thing I have ever done. I did not unpack anything, but I did move the bags to the closet. I don't want to play emotional games with my husband the way he has done with me. But I don't think I could continue the way we were going. Maybe things will be able to change, maybe he was disingenuous...I don't know yet. I feel better. I'd never have gotten to this place of confidence without the thoughtfullness of the people here. I'll keep you posted.
Age difference
Submitted by At on
Good that you finally found a way to talk to your husband. However, I don`t believe that things are gonna work out in the long run. I think part of his and your frustration has to do with the age difference. A man who`s 36 years older than you could be almost your grandfather. I don`t know how old you are but what happens if he`s sometime in the near future not able to get an erection any more then things will be worse because he`s gonna get frustrated because of it and accuse you even more about sleeping with other men.
My husband and me are around the same age, we both grew up in the sixties. We met when we were very young and had our wild years together, we grew together in our relationship. A 36 year older man has already done most of his growing without you, it happened when you was a small child.
Autumn
Age Difference
Submitted by a Taken In Hand reader on
Sorry, I don't mean to be catty, and I respect your opinion, but I couldn't disagree more. My husband is 34 years older than I and we have a wonderful Takin In Hand relationship and a terrific marriage. We married when I was 24 and he was 58. We've been married 12 years which makes me 35 (turning 36 in a few days) and My husband 72. He is as handsome as ever.. a beautiful distinguished and absolutely alpha male. I'm neither naive nor stupid. I realize that he may become ill and that he will likely pre-decease me. (or perhaps not.. one never knows when or how they will leave this world). I knew that when I married him, however, I wouldn't trade our lives together for anything.
I began dating him and was immediately impressed with his wit, wisdom, and PRESENCE. He was so distinguished looking (still is) SO handsome and so in control. He has made me feel loved and safe. Part of loving me has been putting me over his knee for as long as we've been married. He does this as correction only.. we don't use maintenance spankings. He never hesitates to correct me, and I always come away from the spanking feeling loved and relieved that my Husband loves me enough to discipline me. My husband is KIND, GENEROUS, CHEERFUL man and we enjoy a rich and full life together. He does NOT tolerate sassing or disobedience. I had not heard of Taken In Hand when we married, but during our engagement, he made it clear that he was from a different generation and would have to be the "man" of the house.. he also warned me that he would not hesitate to spank or punish me when I needed it. He wanted to be certain I understood BEFORE we married that he would be in charge. I DID understand and welcomed that sort of relationship. He NEVER spanked me before we were married... he felt he didn't have the right to ... yet!..LOL.. Like so many other men on this site, just his words and tone of voice are most often enough to set me straight. That is not always the case, however, and I get spanked grounded, or both a couple of times a month on average.
As for the comment that Kal's husband is old enough to be her grandfather.. well so is mine.. and that's fine with me. I'll bet Kal's Grandfater would have cared enough about her to punish her when she misbehaved and I'm sure he wouldn't let her control him. Older men can be lovers and authority figures. I love my life and my man. He has never failed me. Even when we are visiting relatives, he packs his cane, as it makes no noise. So when I get with my sisters and begin to act "uppity" and sassy, my husband quietly asks if he can speak to me a moment.. leads me to whatever room we are staying in and blisters my bottom with that wicked cane. I always cry and ALWAYS calm down. He hugs me and tells me loves me enough to correct me. At home, he uses a paddle, or his belt. When I see him unbuckle that wide black belt my stomach does somersaults my heart races and the tears start BEFORE he's given me the first lick. I've deserved every spanking I've received and every minute I've spent confined to the house, for misbehaving. I view our age difference as a huge positive. Thank you so much for this site!!
Thank you for your comment
Submitted by KAL on
Thank you for understanding and making it clear I am not alone in this.
Don't leave without a plan.
Submitted by a Taken In Hand reader on
I had a similar experience with my husband and that is why I could have guessed your husband's response. He probably feels old and vulnerable. As we age, it becomes difficult for some of us to deal with mortality. He is critizing you because he is in pain.
My husband was like this when he was very ill. He prefered to have me believe that he was a monster rather than see him as week, He was right.
It was easier to see him as a villain that to look at this terrible genetic desease that he has.
What ever you do, don't leave without a plan. You could lose your daughter. Legal issues should be thought out very carefully, very rationally, very meticulously. When it comes to legal issues the head is more important than the heart.
Needing to be Taken In Hand
Submitted by a Taken In Hand reader on
Kal, I don't know if this will help, but are you a christian? The reason I ask is that if you are then you believe the bible and what it says, hopefully your husband does too. Here's why... In Gen 3:16 God(Yahwey) speaks to Adam and Eve in the garden and tells them that the husband will RULE over the wife. Hopefully you two can sit down together and do a word study on the word RULE and SUBMIT Rule has other words in the definition you can look up and eventually it leads to the husband having the right and duty to DISCIPLINE his wife. If you can't do it together you can and show him. Hope this helps.
Re: New to this site
Submitted by At on
It was late last night when I read your posting and I think I misunderstood some things. I understand now that your husband does take physical actions but says that he only does it for you and it does not turn him on.
I wonder if it`s really so important what he says about it as long as it`s happening. Maybe he doesn`t quite know how to talk about his feelings which seems to be a problem for lots of men, especially men who grew up in a different generation. 20 or 30 years ago people were not as openminded as they are nowadays.
I don’t really understand what you mean by passive-aggressive, could you give an example?
Autumn
About my husband
Submitted by KAL on
He's a difficult person to understand. Yes he has taken physical action, not often and he claims it does nothing for him (which makes the erection in his pants a little confusing)???
On the "passive-aggressive" statement...I don't know if that's exactly the way to describe it, but here's an example.
He will say "I don't feel like you care because you don't do enough around the house" It isn't mostly the cleaning he's talking about it's the rennovation our house is a hundred years old and I was self employed for eight years doing home improvements (there's a story there too). I asked him which project was most important to him and his exact words were, "I don't care what you do, just do something!" Fine. I took on the biggest room in the house, did all the plaster repair, painted and wallpapered the room. For the week it took, I did not do much else. In our next small conflict he erupted at me screaming, "I don't know why you would do that room when the kitchen isn't done, and all week I come home and the dishes are in the sink. You could not find five minutes to do the dishes?" At which point he sulks for three days, rejects all my efforts (I make a meal, he gives it to the dog) and talks about leaving me. It confuses me. I was trying to respond to his needs, I gave him the option of which project he wanted done first.
On the subject of work. He decided I should go back to work. He found an ad in the paper for floor installations. I got the job, of course everyone I worked with was a man. It was a lot of income, enough that my husband could have retired. Instead of being happy about anything he would accuse me, every day, of cheating and said, "I don't know why you had to find a job working with all men when you know I am such a jealous person!" I quit after three months. At which point he said, "You what? I told you I wanted you to help with income!"
And literally all of our interactions are this way. I suggested a Taken In Hand relationship to hopefully have better means of communicating. I'd do anything for him, I love him incredibly, but it would help if he could be more direct. Unfortunately he says he does not want to have to "manage" me. He doesn't realize how much he does but not in a way I can keep responding to without losing my mind!!!
Good Insight!
Submitted by stirbird on
"But the idea that the woman will necessarily be constantly fighting and resisting her husband's control for ever even though she wants a Taken In Hand relationship with him is, as I have argued before, untenable. The knowledge that her husband can and will take firm and thorough action to enforce his will releases the Taken In Hand woman from the need to resist. She can relax. She feels safe. She is no longer consumed with the fear that she might overpower him. She doesn't need to keep fighting for ever and ever until death do them part."
Brillant description of the submissive woman's mindset. This is exactly right, in my personal experience and observations of other submissives.
I'll just add one thing: dominant men often run into problems when, perhaps through inexperience, they try applying this to a woman who they think is submissive but who really isn't, not in her core anyway. You need to know your woman, and if you're not dealing with a submissive mindset, this approach isn't going to work or work for long. For the ones who are submissive, however, the sense of peace she gets when she realizes she can't overpower him no matter what she does is the keystone to her being happy and content.
> whatever happens, her husba
Submitted by a Taken In Hand reader on
> whatever happens, her husband is not in any danger of being
> overpowered by her. She doesn't want to have to tip-toe
> around all the time lest she inadvertently crush him.
Even if he is sometimes overpowered by her it will not crush him unless he has a very fragile ego. Of course, there are women who will use any weakness of her man as an opportunity to try to crush him. But when she tries to do so she begins an uphill battle, since in this situation she is clearly morally wrong. And even if she doesn't give a damn about being morally wrong, in most circumstances he still will be able to disengage. All he needs is to tell the f***ing b*tch to f**k the hell off, and to file a divorce. So, your fears about inadvertently crushing the man are rather exaggerated.
Of course, in an intimate relationship woman can, and sometimes does, hurt her man—just as he can, and sometimes does, hurt her. But this is the drawback of having an intimate relationship. If they don't want to crush each other, they won't.
> he makes it much less likely that he will encounter
> resistance or rebellion in the first place
All that an unnecessary or undemocratic authority deserves is a violent rebellion. Probably that is why so much was said about "a rebellious wife" in old times. The cure is simple: don't assume an authority position, or at least don't do this unilaterally, and there would be no rebels you can't beat.
Of course, if you are welcomed to be the head of the household it is still possible that your wife would rebel against some your decisions. But if that is a frequent occurrence, it's time to start asking questions, because either you decisions are not that good or your wife does not really want your leadership. By the way, the latter is not a catastrophe. The whole male (or female for that matter) leadership stuff was a highly questionable venture from the beginning.
Of course, all this does not invalidate the wisdom of the old Roman maxim, but frankly, I don't want to have to intimidate my partner in order to live with her peacefully. There is a big frightful world around me, and I want her to fight on my side. I don't want to have to be prepared to parry a stab in my back, even if I can do so.
In a Strange State of Waiting
Submitted by Mrs Lucky on
I can really relate to so much of this post by the boss. It is very much the type of relationship that Mr Lucky and I are trying to create. However, we seem to be in a sort of limbo-state. I feel like I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop, so to speak, but it's just not dropping...
I imagine this might be fairly common in some new Taken In Hand relationships such as ours. And I'm seeking advise about how to move beyond it.
As I described in a previous article, we've been married a long time and have a solid, loving relationship. After lots and lots of reading, talking, and soul searching, we decided that we both wanted to change the dynamics of our relationship and embrace Taken in Hand. It was definitely my idea to start with, as I was the one to stumble upon the Taken In Hand website, but Mr Lucky didn't seem put off when I brought it up to him. He liked the idea of stepping up and being in charge, although he was initially concerned about physically taking me in hand because it might seem like abuse and also the potential of suppressing my ideas or contributions to the relationship if he was the one who had the ultimate say. But we talked through most if not all of our hopes and fears and ultimately we decided to make a go of it, discipline and all. We know there is the chance that it might not be right for us, but we both feel it speaks to us and we want to give it a try.
I really believe that he wants this as much as I do. We talk about it a lot and I have asked many times since our decision if he is sure about it or has any reservations. He always answers that he is definitely sure and would tell me if he changed his mind or if he felt uncomfortable about it.
He has been so amazing. He's been reading articles on this site like crazy. He has changed his whole attitude. He really has stepped up in a huge way. He rarely procrastinates anymore. He's taken a much more active role with the kids and the house and even our rental properties. He says he feels better about himself and more confident in his abilities. He likes the idea of being the captain of our ship and me being first mate. And as described in other articles on this site, he has adopted the idea of putting me first in his thoughts and he really likes the idea of taking care of me. I especially love this because he used to think I was so capable that I didn't need any help or anyone to lean on. I feel so fortunate that I have him and that he cares so much for me and our family.
For my part, I try to do nice things for him and make him feel loved and respected. I'm always available for sex. I act as if he's the boss and run things by him even though he hasn't specifically asked me to. I try to defer to him and not be so fast to make decisions or to speak. If I wait, he usually steps up and takes charge. Such as ordering for me in a restaurant, or making a decision regarding the house or family. I still feel like I'm orchestrating it a bit, but it's early days, so hopefully we'll both get more comfortable in our new roles.
So what is the problem?
Well, that's where it ends so far. I don't want to be whiny because I know I have it good. But lately I have been feeling frustrated about the actual Taken In Hand part. I've been "acting as if" for months now, but as the boss describes in her article, I need to know that he really IS the captain of our ship. I want to feel his control and authority over ME. It's great that he has stepped up in other aspects of our life, he's being more responsible and reliable than he ever was before. But it doesn't feel like he has stepped up in the most important aspect -us. I feel like I still don't know if I'm in control or if he is. I act as if he is, but I have a feeling that if I push at all, he will revert to our old ways and do whatever I want. Part of the reason I am drawn to Taken In Hand is the erotic aspect of my husband being dominant. Dominant with me.
I don't want to brat, or take some arbitrary stand just to see his reaction. But I really want to know what his reaction is. I'm not talking just about discipline but about him being in control in general. He hasn't really given me any "orders" or asked me to do specific things or not to. When we first decided to have a Taken In Hand relationship, we did talk about me being respectful and also not telling him how to drive, but I usually am respectful and the couple of times I've been a bit of a backseat driver, he hasn't really had much of a reaction.
We don't argue or fight very often so nothing has come up that would be an obvious reason for him to spank me.
We have talked about spanking a lot and it seems like we are in agreement about it and he says he is ready to do it when the time comes. But I worry that the only time I will see his control or authority will be through discipline. Yet I would like to feel it in positive situations too not just when I do something "wrong". I find it really sexy when he overpowers me or tells me what to do. It just doesn't happen very often.
I just feel like we're in this strange place- waiting...
Can anyone relate?
Maybe I am being impatient, but I just want a better sense of what our Taken In Hand relationship will be like and if is it right for us. Until he can really take charge, I don't think I'll have an answer.
Any suggestions?
P.S. Mr Lucky was okay with me posting this article. He wants to move the relationship to the next level too.
The journey continues
Submitted by Mrs Lucky on
I’m going to respond to my own post and give an update on how our situation is unfolding. I’m hoping it might be helpful to others to see our starts, stops and stumbles as we navigate our way hopefully to a great place.
The best part so far about our decision to try a Taken In Hand relationship is that we have been talking and talking and talking. Even if that is where it ends, it will be worth it to have learned how to really communicate with each other and to share our deepest thoughts.
As you can see in my post above, we are sort of in a limbo state. We have decided to try Taken in Hand, but after several months, I have yet to be taken in hand.
Last night we talked some more and Mr Lucky explained some of his hesitation to me. It’s interesting how different people can read the same things and come away with such different ideas. He has been reading this site as I have, but he came away with the idea that he needs to have every duck in a row before he can be our head of the household. He felt like he needed to have all the answers before we even started. He felt that because the head of the household needs to be strong, he needs to be perfect. He was worried that if he made a mistake or a bad decision he would be failing as head of the household. He wants so much to do a good job that he is paralyzed. And that feeds his fears that he may not have it in him afterall. He also feels that since his dominance has lain dormant for so long he feels unsure of how to access it or even if he can anymore. He doesn’t want to let me down. He doesn’t want to let himself down.
It was humbling to realize how seriously he is taking this- especially because it was my idea to start with.
Of course we talked about these fears and I tried to allay them as best I could. We talked about just choosing a few things to focus on at first. He doesn't have to be perfect, or know everything about everything. Everyone makes mistakes and being head of the household does not mean you have to be perfect. Just honest and caring and aim for consistency. It is a journey afterall. I tried to let him know that even if he doesn’t ultimately feel comfortable or capable in a Taken in Hand relationship, I’m okay with that. He knows that I hope we both like it, but we have so much in our relationship as it is that if Taken in Hand doesn’t work out for us, we will still be okay. Who knows, maybe I won’t like it and he will. I do feel bad that he feels pressure from himself and from me. Partly because unfortunately, it does seem that the man has the brunt of the work as far as taking action in a Taken in Hand relationship. Or at least starting things off.
Even though we have both been reading and talking like crazy, it is still very difficult to put into words the dynamic we are hoping for and even harder to explain why exactly it speaks to us.
Last night we tried again to pinpoint what we want.
He really likes the idea that it is like breaking/taming a horse. He likes to think of a horse as a strong, beautiful, intelligent, beguiling creature. The horse doesn’t follow just anyone’s lead but only the man who tames her. She can be head-strong and belligerent to many, but for the man who captures her heart and earns her respect, she will do almost anything. It’s not that the horse is inferior to the rider, but that the rider understands her completely. He has her under his control. He knows what she wants and what she needs. She feels secure in his hands and willingly follows him, bestowing upon only him her depth of love and devotion.
I know this is sort of corny, but it was the closest we could come to what we are trying to create. It speaks to me in that for me to surrender to him, he needs to earn my respect. I need to know that he really is in control and capable of taking the reins, so to speak. I want to give him the gift of power over me and our household, but I need to be sure that he is capable. For Mr Lucky, it speaks to his contention that I am not inferior to him, but just have different needs. It is appealing to him that by taking control he can unlock a part of me that is completely devoted to him and only him. It speaks to both of us of the possibilities of deeper love if we can both do our part. Him take the lead and me surrender.
It’s not that I am withholding my love for him. I love him more than anyone in the world, but that his dominance can tap something deeper in me that I can’t get to myself.
This idea appeals to both of us and by keeping it in our minds, it might help us take the next steps towards Taken in Hand.
He returns from a business trip on Thursday, and then he says we will begin our Taken in Hand relationship in earnest. It is a trial to see if we can make this work for us.
We’ll never know until we jump in with both feet, if it is right for us or not.
Wish us luck!