I'm new to this site. I feel extremely at home here. I have especially enjoyed this article. For me, the "action necessary" is somewhat physical. And for me, the physical, always produces a feeling of sexual arousal.

That seems to be the case for my husband (obviously, physically I can tell) but he denies that it does anything gratifying for him sexually at all. Although I did bring it to his attention the last time, and he said he didn't even realize it. How is that possible?

He is extremely controlling, which I love, but he seems to be embarrassed to overtly demonstrate it unless I push him, and hence, I find myself pushing him more and more often. He is not unwilling to physically discipline me, but what happens is that he ends up saying later, "I knew you wanted it, that's why I did it." And what I want is for him to be able to enjoy it and not make it sound like I was ultimately in control. HELP, please!!! Any advice would be welcome.

My husband is much older than I am, (36 years older). He has no problem with the idea of a man being in charge, but he claims to get no satisfaction from this type of relationship. What do I do?

I love him, and I love serving him. But he's often passive-aggressive in his demands and what I need is for him to be overt with his control. He has it, he just doesn't demonstrate it in a way that is as fulfilling as it could be...

KAL

"But the idea that the woman will necessarily be constantly fighting and resisting her husband's control for ever even though she wants a Taken In Hand relationship with him is, as I have argued before, untenable. The knowledge that her husband can and will take firm and thorough action to enforce his will releases the Taken In Hand woman from the need to resist. She can relax. She feels safe. She is no longer consumed with the fear that she might overpower him. She doesn't need to keep fighting for ever and ever until death do them part."

Brillant description of the submissive woman's mindset. This is exactly right, in my personal experience and observations of other submissives.

I'll just add one thing: dominant men often run into problems when, perhaps through inexperience, they try applying this to a woman who they think is submissive but who really isn't, not in her core anyway. You need to know your woman, and if you're not dealing with a submissive mindset, this approach isn't going to work or work for long. For the ones who are submissive, however, the sense of peace she gets when she realizes she can't overpower him no matter what she does is the keystone to her being happy and content.

I really don´t know what kind of advice I could give you, I`m not somebody who believes that age doesn`t make a difference. In my eyes it does, not 5 or 10 years but 20 or 30 years definitely make a big difference. Maybe he feels that he`s too old to start something new. Telling you that you should more or less read his mind on how to please him seems like the easy way out. You could just instead of trying to please him more, do little things to get on his nerves. Maybe it will bring out the dominance in him. I think if my husband wouldn`t have thought of it himself, I would`ve sooner or later said to him "Well, if you`re not willing to spank me, I guess I`m gonna have to find a real man to do it". For us that would´ve worked, I don`t know if it will for you.

Autumn

What I would do Kal, is leave him. Even if he disagreed with you, there was absolutely no need for him to be gratuitiously and emotionally cruel, and life's too short to take that from anybody. He also sounds pretty emotionally ill if someone's reaching out to him sends him into hiding for 72 hrs. IMO, he's not a dominant, he's a lazy f**K who wants to imagine he's dominant while he sits back doing nothing to back up what he claims and watches some poor sub try to dom herself (it can't be done--and that's his whole point, he'd be scared shitless if he had to really dom a real submissive, so he pretends and makes sure you cannot win or convince him you're sub). Tons of these guys online, too, they're about the lowest common denominator of people attracted to bdsm. They flock to the kinky personals boards in droves, strutting around like peacocks pretending to be doms, until you ask them to actually do something dominant. Then poof! They vanish like a bubble! :)

Sounds like this guy is not only really set in his ways but also set in his ideas of how he sees you--probably it's "safe" and the big brave dominant is too scared to let you break out of your usual mold as if you did he might have to (gasp!) change himself. Unless you want to be miserable for the rest of your life for the sake of a principle (loyalty to someone who treats you like dirt), I strongly urge you to seek out someone who will appreciate you the way you are. And no I'm not trying to hit on you, I'm a submissive woman too. Who has seen WAY to many submissive women ruin their lives for selfish vanilla a--es like him. GRRR!!! What he's done makes me want to slap him silly--the putz!

It was late last night when I read your posting and I think I misunderstood some things. I understand now that your husband does take physical actions but says that he only does it for you and it does not turn him on.

I wonder if it`s really so important what he says about it as long as it`s happening. Maybe he doesn`t quite know how to talk about his feelings which seems to be a problem for lots of men, especially men who grew up in a different generation. 20 or 30 years ago people were not as openminded as they are nowadays.

I don´t really understand what you mean by passive-aggressive, could you give an example?

Autumn

And thanks to everyone who's written. I feel welcomed here and at home here, much more so than I feel in my own home sometimes.

It was wrong of him to attack me, and I, tearfully, told him how frightening it was for me to be completely honest with him and have him try to make me feel worthless and scared. I explained to him that I want to submit but it has to be done within a safe emotional place, not for the purpose of obtaining that safe place. At which point he said, "Well then, the only thing I think there is left to talk about is when you are leaving." Which he does not mean. We went to counseling once, before we got married and he admitted to the counselor that he threatened to leave in order to bring me to the point of tears and begging him to stay. Which I used to do, but don't do anymore.

I cannot, as someone said, dom myself. In the absence of his power I have nothing to submit to. I can't even begin to do all of what he wants me to do if I don't know what it is. I don't think he knows. He'll take physical action from time to time, but only on his terms, not because he'll do it "my way".

I felt really badly about myself, so I called my therapist and explained entirely honestly what happened, who I am, how I felt and asked him if he thought I was sick. He laughed. When he was done laughing he said, "No. I think you are finally on your way to being much more healthy. That isn't the relationship I would choose, but the way you are wanting it to happen is entirely healthy, not having it the way he seems to want to have it demonstrates to me your progress not that you are sick." I choose to take his opinion, because I know him well and trust him with my life, he is, fortunately very open-minded. The last therapist I had and quickly quit suggested the reason I had these feelings was because I had suppressed some sexual abuse as a child and wanted hypnosis for me. While I am the product of my past experiences, and I was abused, it wasn't sexual (until I married my first husband), and that type of dominance was not consensual and left me frigid for years. That was abuse. What I want now, I believe is just about as far as you can get from abuse.

I cannot leave my husband. I cannot. I don't want to, but I don't want to live like this either, but I cannot leave him. It isn't an excuse, it isn't anything like that. I cannot leave him. The damage he would do to my life is simply something I cannot afford right now. Long story short, my mother is dating my ex-husband. We have to go back to court for my daughter in the next few months. If I left, my husband would go to court and say horrible lies about me to get even with the hurt it would inflict on him if I left. I cannot do that to my daughter. I cannot go anywhere until I know she is safely out of a very bad situation. In the meantime, I really, truly love my husband and I want us to be happy. I think we could be. I'll do anything I can to save this marriage, but I also have needs and feelings. I may be submissive, but I am still a person.

I did a bold thing yesterday, after spending a lot of time and thought about life and what the heck I'm doing with it. I would never have been able to do this without the help I have gotten here.

I, nervously, packed a few bags of essentials and had them sitting by the front door when he got home. He did not know what to say. He came to find me in the dining room, at the table with some articles I printed from this site (only because he has no computer skills at all). I quietly said, "I love you very much, and some of these articles explain me perfectly, some of them describe a lot about you, and some will explain to you why this marriage is not going to work the way you are trying to have it work. If you do not read them, I have to leave now, and I will not come back. If you read them and find no value, we should not have gotten married in the first place. I cannot submit to you because you scare me; it is that simple. You will never get what you want from me this way, and I will never get what I need under these circumstances."

I half thought he would walk out of the room and hold the door open for me. He looked stunned. I do not threaten to leave, so I think he knew I was serious. He said nothing, at all, just sat down and started to read. His eyes got bigger and bigger, and tears started pouring down his face. Thirty minutes later he looked at me and said, "Is there more to read? I'm so sorry. I did not realize how much pain my actions were creating and problems where we probably did not have to have any. I think I feel badly about who I am, and instead of admitting it, I punish you for it in destructive ways. I don't want you to leave. I love you, I just haven't liked me for the way I am. Maybe I can. Will you let us try? Do you think you can ever trust me like this?"

I said, honestly, "I don't know. I love you. I think I can if you do your part to help provide an emotionally and physically safe place. I am open to try, but to be submissive and give you that, is a gift to respect and not a one sided road of giving."

The rest of the evening was quiet. He read the articles over and over, and seemed to get something new from them each time he read them. It was the first time I felt that level of emotion from him. Nothing sexual, just comforting, but not entirely convinced. Time will tell.

My daughter is too young to be heard in court. But, as I thought about this yesterday, and his threats to ambush me and the level of crippling that does to the soul...I thought that it would be better to endure whatever he might say than to demonstrate to her that settling for misery was an example worth following. As difficult and painful as that would be, there are many good people who would come to support me and say true and positive things about me and my relationship with my daughter. She has seen some horrifying things in her young life, my thinking that staying in this will protect her was false and probably a way for me to hide from my fears of leaving him.

It was the most difficult thing I have ever done. I did not unpack anything, but I did move the bags to the closet. I don't want to play emotional games with my husband the way he has done with me. But I don't think I could continue the way we were going. Maybe things will be able to change, maybe he was disingenuous...I don't know yet. I feel better. I'd never have gotten to this place of confidence without the thoughtfullness of the people here. I'll keep you posted.

I had a similar experience with my husband and that is why I could have guessed your husband's response. He probably feels old and vulnerable. As we age, it becomes difficult for some of us to deal with mortality. He is critizing you because he is in pain.

My husband was like this when he was very ill. He prefered to have me believe that he was a monster rather than see him as week, He was right.

It was easier to see him as a villain that to look at this terrible genetic desease that he has.

What ever you do, don't leave without a plan. You could lose your daughter. Legal issues should be thought out very carefully, very rationally, very meticulously. When it comes to legal issues the head is more important than the heart.

Thank you for understanding and making it clear I am not alone in this.

> whatever happens, her husband is not in any danger of being
> overpowered by her. She doesn't want to have to tip-toe
> around all the time lest she inadvertently crush him.

Even if he is sometimes overpowered by her it will not crush him unless he has a very fragile ego. Of course, there are women who will use any weakness of her man as an opportunity to try to crush him. But when she tries to do so she begins an uphill battle, since in this situation she is clearly morally wrong. And even if she doesn't give a damn about being morally wrong, in most circumstances he still will be able to disengage. All he needs is to tell the f***ing b*tch to f**k the hell off, and to file a divorce. So, your fears about inadvertently crushing the man are rather exaggerated.

Of course, in an intimate relationship woman can, and sometimes does, hurt her man - just as he can, and sometimes does, hurt her. But this is the drawback of having an intimate relationship. If they don't want to crush each other, they won't.

> he makes it much less likely that he will encounter
> resistance or rebellion in the first place

All that an unnecessary or undemocratic authority deserves is a violent rebellion. Probably that is why so much was said about "a rebellious wife" in old times. The cure is simple: don't assume an authority position, or at least don't do this unilaterally, and there would be no rebels you can't beat.

Of course, if you are welcomed to be the HOH it is still possible that your wife would rebel against some your decisions. But if that is a frequent occurrence, it's time to start asking questions, because either you decisions are not that good or your wife does not really want your leadership. By the way, the latter is not a catastrophe. The whole male (or female for that matter) leadership stuff was a highly questionable venture from the beginning.

Of course, all this does not invalidate the wisdom of the old Roman maxim, but frankly, I don't want to have to intimidate my partner in order to live with her peacefully. There is a big frightful world around me, and I want her to fight on my side. I don't want to have to be prepared to parry a stab in my back, even if I can do so.