ReMorseful

ReMorseful

I have often remarked that spanking does not change my behaviour permanently, and that I have no faith in spanking as a permanent cure for negative behaviour. However, there have been a few occasions when something I have done has so infuriated my husband that I have definitely decided that I had better not do whatever it was ever again, or else. What makes me decide this is not so much the force of the spanking, as the force of the fury behind it. One such occasion occured yesterday afternoon.

I was glued to the TV watching Inspector Morse. He Who Must Be Obeyed was in the kitchen cooking hamburgers for tea. He came into the living room to ask me how I wanted my hamburgers cooked, about ten minutes before the end of Morse, just when Morse and Lewis were confronting the second murderer. I, not caring in the least how my burgers were cooked, and just wanting to hear what Morse and Lewis were saying, flapped my hand at him in a shushing gesture.

He went through the roof. I haven't seen him that angry for months. When he calmed down slightly, he informed me,grimly, that the dial on the Spankometre was set firmly to “Severely Pissed Off”. I had a few hours to contemplate the fact that I hadn't actually had a 'severely pissed off' spanking for months, and that I had begun to wonder if perhaps we had reached such a state of harmony that I was never going to get one again. Fate always seems to take a hand at time like that, to remind me not to get complacent about things.

Well, when we had got the children settled and went up to bed, he told me to go and get the steel ruler, then go in the bathroom and damp my bottom down. The spanking that followed was long, hard and extremely painful, I was surpised to find afterwards that I hadn't actually bitten through the pillow, he applied the ruler with extreme vigour and with undiminshed energy. “When I ask you a question I expect to get a respectful answer” he informed me, “You will NOT make dismissive gestures at me when I ask you something” etc etc. By the time he had finished I was in the state of outward agony and inward tranquility that I always am in after a really harsh spanking. And there won't be any more dismissve hand gestures from me. That one has definitely sunk in. I feel that that bit of negative behaviour is cured.

Louise C

Take the Taken In Hand tour

Comments

OUCH! That sounds like that h

OUCH! That sounds like that hurt very much. What exactly is a steel ruler? I have never heard of one, and certainly don't want to experience one. I too feel tranquility on the inside after my husband spanks me.

Steel rulers

My husband does a lot of metalwork, and he uses steel rulers a lot, for measuring metal I suppose. You can get them in metric or Imperial measurements (my husband naturaly prefers Imperial) They are thin and flexible and sting like anything, and they have the virtue of being very quiet by comparison with his other favoured implement, the wooden paddle. Quietness is an advantage with young children in the house, which is why I find myself chewing on the pillow a great deal.

Louise

Thawed

Hi Louise,

Did you find out why the murderer did it?!! You know that you could have caught one of the many repeats don't you?!

Seriously, it's a times like this that I get into trouble too. When I am distracted or tired I can fall into my old patterns of behaviour in a heartbeat! Morse probably wouldn't have caused me to waft my hand but Walking the Dead might have done! I have to say that I have incredible respect for my husband that he doesn't let me make these slips unchecked. I would hate to think of petty grievances building up, as they used to. I would think less of my husband if he let me treat what he had to say as being of lower value than what's on the TV.

The other day my husband was very annoyed with me about something and felt that I had tried to control him (he was right!) and we discussed the issue at length, as it is a recurring theme. I know that I am never going to be perfect and I suspect you are never going to achieve this either Louise! I guess that we are lucky to have husbands who care enough about our relationships to address our behaviour until we feel genuine remorse!

Love
Jane M

Motives

Yes, I did find out why the murderer did it! I have not watched Morse for some time, and I find I have forgotten who the murderers are and what their motive was in most cases, which is great as it's like watching them for the first time again. However, since Tuesday's interesting incident, I have decided to take the simple precaution of recording the programme, so that if I should miss anything I can go back and watch it again, and that also cuts down on the danger of my infuriating my husband. But, I may never be able to put on an episode again without thinking about that afternoon!

I did find myself wondering whether, on some subconscious level, I had actually done it on purpose to get that kind of reaction, since I had been thinking, with a slight tinge of wistfulness, that I hadn't had a 'severely pissed off' spanking for months. But I really had no idea that doing that would annoy him so much, I think it was just coincidence, or maybe it was the God of Spanking having a bit of fun with me.

Last night I got another vigorous spanking. Seeing that he had got the wooden paddle out I hestitated before slithering across his knee "You're not still severely pissed off, are you?" I asked cautiously, wanting to be prepared. "No, but a reminder seems to be in order he replied cheerfully. As i was still quite tender from the previous night it was quite painful enough, and he drove the point home quite thoroughly. "What are you not going to be?" he asked me. "Dismissive" I replied meekly. "And who is master here?" he went on. "You are" I whimpered.

I agree with you in feeling more respect for my husband now because he doesn't let me get away with things that annoy him, but at the same time he manages to stay in control of the situation and keep a rein on his own temper. In pre-Taken In Hand days the Morse incident could have led to hours or even days of ill-feeling, with him losing his temper and me feeling sulky and aggrieved, but as it was it was all over and dealt with at bedtime in a manner satisfactory to both of us.

I am certainly never going to be perfect, but things are a lot better now than they used to be I think we are lucky to have husbands who can deal with our behaviour, I hadn't actually realised, until I discovered this site, that qualities my husband possessed that I had always thought I found objectionable could actually be an asset in our relationship, if both of us just went about things in a slightly different way. That he cares enough to do this is great.
Love
Louise

I'm not into taken in hand relationships. I just don't get it.

You had actually done it just because it is natural. All humans are sometimes very involved in something and resent being distracted. It is normal. And it is not disrespectful towards anybody.

No sensible parent, however strict, would react in such way to this behaviour of his (or her) child. No sensible husband, however dominant, would react in such way to this behaviour of his spouse if he truly loves her (and even if he just has some respect for her).

You have been abused. And it just makes you feel "more respect for my husband". Can you respect only those who don't have respect for you? I think it's rhetorical question.

I think, Louise, that all your involvement with "male-led" relationships has nothing to do with "superior qualities" of your husband or erotic appeal of "being taken". It has anything to do with your hatred of yourself and your deep contempt for yourself. And the fact that you are living with a man who in "pre-Taken In Hand days" would in such case react with losing his temper and now reacts with beating you up is just an expression of this your self-hatred and self-contempt. I don't know whether your husband was such a lowly man before, but I think that you definitely are making him worse than he is.

I'm not into taken in hand relationships. I just don't get it. But I would not assert that, say, the boss has psychological problems. Maybe what she is doing is right for her. I doubt that but I may well be wrong. But you, Louise, definitely have psychological problems. And you need psychotherapy, not spanking.

Reply to the poster who doesn't get Taken In Hand

First, note that the above poster says quite clearly:

I'm not into taken in hand relationships. I just don't get it.

And because this poster doesn't get it, it is not surprising that he or she takes such a dark view of Louise's article. It is also not totally surprising that someone baffled by the whole taken-in-hand dynamic might leap to the conclusion that a Taken In Hand person has serious psychological problems. However, I cannot imagine how any reputable psychologist or psychiatrist would come to the conclusion that Louise is in any way a person with psychological problems. On the contrary, if she is anything like her posts, she is about the sanest person you could meet. I can hardly think of anyone less likely to attract any kind of psychiatric diagnosis! (Were the comments aimed at someone more psychologically vulnerable than Louise I might well have just deleted the post instead of approving it! But I think Louise she find the post amusing rather than any real reflection on her.)

No sensible husband, however dominant, would react in such way to this behaviour of his spouse if he truly loves her (and even if he just has some respect for her).

One of the things that makes Louise so very sane is that she is aware of her own fallibility, and that of her husband, and she does not expect either of them to be perfect, and she and her husband have clearly found ways to improve their marriage in very pleasurable ways despite the fact that they are ordinary mortals. Despite what some seem to think, Louise is a positive, kind person, and she has created something beautiful with her husband. If Louise needs help, we all do!

A husband whose beloved wife wants to be taken in hand might well act the way Louise's husband did. Thinking that that must mean that he does not love her is simply a mistake. Those who do get Taken In Hand would not think that way. Some women reading this site envy Louise her wonderful husband, and no, they don't hate themselves either, they are just into Taken In Hand, like Louise is.

You have been abused. And it just makes you feel "more respect for my husband". Can you respect only those who don't have respect for you? I think it's rhetorical question.

The poster is making the mistake of judging things in the absence of any understanding of or desire for a Taken In Hand relationship. Though there are undoubtedly people who are drawn to Taken In Hand who have psychological problems such as borderline personality disorder (BPD), post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), etc., there is nothing in anything Louise has written to suggest even a hint of any such problem. She has not been abused, and I very much doubt she would say that one can only respect someone who doesn't have respect for oneself. You can't read Louise's comments as though there is no context of a loving and very much consensual Taken In Hand relationship that she herself initiated.

I think, Louise, that all your involvement with male-led relationships has nothing to do with "superior qualities" of your husband or erotic appeal of "being taken". It has anything to do with your hatred of yourself and your deep contempt for yourself.

Utter nonsense! How completely absurd!

And the fact that you are living with a man who in "pre-Taken In Hand days" would in such case react with losing his temper and now reacts with beating you up is just an expression of this your self-hatred and self-contempt.

Rubbish! Louise has created a mutually enjoyable marriage that now seems very stable. As I said, if Louise needs help, we all do (and I mean everyone, not just readers of this site!)

I'm not into taken in hand relationships. I just don't get it.

Evidently.

But I would not assert that, say, the boss has psychological problems.

Phew! That's a weight off my mind. ;-)

(But if I don't, then Louise definitely doesn't! Read more of her posts!)

Maybe what she is doing is right for her.

Definitely.

But you, Louise, definitely have psychological problems. And you need psychotherapy, not spanking.

This kind of attack is so easy, isn't it? Instead, why not take the time to learn about the psychology of Taken In Hand and come to a better understanding before calling into question someone's sanity? And why are you on this site in the first place if you are so appalled by it? It is not compulsory to read it, you know. Why not stick around and read more of Louise's writing. Assuming that you have even the merest smidgen of psychological insight, it should be possible for you to come to understand it intellectually even if every fibre of your being reacts against Taken In Hand. (And you might be interested to know that many people in Taken In Hand relationships were once as appalled as you are. ;-) )

Mad? Moi?

I think most people are a bit nuts! Life can be crazy sometimes and you can either roll over and be depressed or you can grab some fun!

I am sure that being taken in hand would not work for most of my friends as they have established dynamics that work. However I know lots of women who crave a husband who is strong, will lead them and make them feel safe. Since making changes to my own marriage I am hyper aware of couples who are downright rude and disrespectful to each other. I can't see the harm in a couple negotiating new dynamics between them that work for them and give them pleasure. How can that be considered unbalanced?

Louise has deemed her husband worthy of being the leader of her family. She's obviously happy and enjoys the negotiated and pre-agreed 'aggression' which seems far more preferable to uncontrolled explosions of anger. It seems to me that Louise is empowered now and very much has her voice heard in her marriage. Her husband also has a voice and can express his annoyance over the things that matter to him. Our situation is very similar, and we are both much happier now that we both feel much more listened to and have ways of dealing with potential flashpoints.

I'll bet there are plenty of women who would love to be as unbalanced as us!! ;-)

Jane M

Spanking psychotherapy

I quite agree with you that no sensible parent would react in that way if a child did that. However, I am not a child, I am an adult woman, and the relationship between husband and wife is not the same as that between parent and child. My hand-flapping was, as you rightly point out, natural, but so was my husband's irritation at my doing that. He does not like being ignored when he asks me a question. It's just one of his little ways.

I would point out that this incident occurred when my husband was in the kitchen cooking the dinner, while I was sprawled on the sofa watching TV; this might give you a clue that I am not exactly a downtrodden, oppressed wife. It was only one day since he had returned from spending a week in Las Vegas, and he was still suffering from jet-lag, in spite of which he had got up that morning to drive the children to school (it was bitterly cold and raining and he didn't want us to have to walk in that weather) and he had taken me shopping. And he'd gone up to the school to collect the children. And there he was cooking the dinner. He could have spent all day in bed, but he didn't.

Spanking is something my husband does because I have a very powerful desire for it. It was my suggestion that he use spanking to express his displeasure with me when he was annoyed about something, and the fact that he took to doing this with great enthusiasm has been a source of great pleasure to me. And it has improved things between us a lot. He 'beats me up' if you choose to put it like that, because it is something I very much want him to do. Ask him and he will tell you, if I go more than a couple of days without a spanking I start to climb the wall with frustration. If you're not into spanking it's hard to understand why someone else might crave it, I can only suggest that you imagine how you feel about having sex with your partner, and how you would feel if he or she wouldn't make love to you, to get some idea of how I would feel if my husband wouldn't spank me. And I have had the craving to be spanked since I was eight years old, which is some seventeen years before I met my present husband, so you can't blame that on him.

As for needing psycotherapy, well, frankly I don't have much faith in that: both my parents saw psychiatrists for years and years, and it never did either of them any good as far as I could make out. Besides, years of watching 'Frasier' avidly has robbed me completely of any ability to take the profession seriously. Besides, spanking is cheaper, and a lot more fun.

I don't hate myself. I don't love myself either. I consider neither an appropriate emotion to have towards oneself. I mostly accept myself as I am without either love or hatred coming into it. Neither self-love nor self-hatred seem to me to be at all appealing. I make a bit more of an effort these days with those aspects of my character that my husband does not love, as he likewise makes an effort with the things I don't love in him, but I cannot see anything wrong in that.

I am slightly confused though, if what the boss is doing is right for her, why isn't what I am doing right for me? Why this discrimination?

Louise

Oh Hali!

Thank you for your kind words. You are one of my favourite people too!

I don't really mind this person expressing how he/she feels, but I do wonder why he/she feels that I need help and the boss doesn't! I mean, it's the boss who started this site after all, and I wouldn't even be in a Taken In Hand relationship if it wasn't for her (thanks the boss)

Louise

Louise you give me joy

Louise you give me joy, and the boss gives me understanding and peace. This is the difference which I see. I take you as a very free person, maybe somebody could envy. Thank you for being who you are.
Hali

Wow

I just love your post! This has been the best website for me to explore what I want in a relationship. Thanks to everyone for your honesty and willingness to share!

Outsiders don't understand

It`s the fact when other people live a different life in one way or another it is often not excepted by outsiders. But I also believe that it is almost impossible to tell without knowing someone in person, if they need psychological help or not unless they are very honest about every detail of their personality and give the impression of being unhappy with themselfes and the way they are living.

Autumn

First of all, I should say th

First of all, I should say that I don't mean to offend anybody. If I wrote something that you may regard as too judgmental that's because it was almost painful to me to read your original message. As far as I can see from your message "Spanking psychotherapy" you seem to be quite rational person, so I think I should try to be more precise about what exactly I've found objectionable.

I don't object to spanking per se (provided that is consensual, of course). Well, I admit that I don't get it, but I understand that all persons are different and have different desires. And it well may be that it is more rational in some cases to satisfy this desire rather than try to change one's neural pathways through some kind of psychotherapy (that is usually possible but quite costly in terms of time, energy and money).

Also I would not find objectionable the fact that in this case spanking was used in part as means to change (maybe permanently) some pattern of your behaviour. I don't get that either exactly because I am adult, but I understand that there are different styles of relationships, and there are times one feel real need to change some behaviour pattern of one's spouse.

But I've found quite appalling the NATURE of the desired changes.

Of course, I can easily understand the feelings of your husband. He is doing something for you, he asks you how to do it better and you just dismiss him. Of course it always depends on the context of the relationships, but I would consider your act to be rather rude. But problem was about how you relate to your husband, not about how you relate with your attention.

Let's suppose that you got into some sort of situation that really needs your attention here and now. Let's suppose that your husband for some reason don't quite understand this situation and wants you, maybe for some very good reason, to pay attention to him immediately. It's quite possible that your newly acquired reflex just would make you pay attention to him, if only for a fraction of a second. And it well may be that this split-second distraction would result in a permanent injury or even death.

Of course this is hypothetical scenario which may never be realized. Nevertheless, there is a big problem here, and I just use this scenario to underscore it. It's wrong to change fundamental reflexes of someone else unless it is the decision of THAT PERSON (I mean, YOU AND ONLY YOU have the right to decide what your reflexes should be and should not be).

You agreed with me than no sensible parent would react in that way if a child did that. I don't know whether you agreed just with assertion that sensible parent would not beat his/her child that harshly, or maybe you would as well agree that instilling in one's child such reflexes is wrong even if it is done through milder means. So all I can say is that if you agree that instilling such reflexes in child is wrong, so is instilling them in an adult. After all, an adult is just a grown up child. If child is an end and not just a means to an end, so is adult. It's wrong to assume that anything that would make you a better wife (or better mother, or better employee) is justified. If some change that makes you a better wife at the same time makes you less fit for your own ends (survival and pleasure, of course, is among them for any living person), it is bad. And if your husband insists on that change he is rather irresponsible in this regard.

What you are missing

What you are missing is that Louise's relationship is consensual. You are mistaking the form for the substance of the relationship. The words used undoubtedly can lead people to misunderstand, but the fact is, this is what Louise wants, and the reason she wants it, in my view, is because it is in this kind of relationship that she and her husband solve more problems and have more fun and other good things. It is not at all that she is a means to her husband's ends in the immoral sense you mean. Not at all. Difficult to understand though this may be, for many of those who are drawn to this kind of relationship, it paradoxically creates consent. You have to see beyond the form to understand that. Do read more of Louise's posts, and the site in general, and it might possibly become clear.

Injury and death

I was not in a life-threatening situation when the incident occurred. I was lying on the sofa watching telly. A good deal of injury and death was occurring on screen (two murders and an attempted suicide in that particular episode), but not actually in my personal life. What I would try to do in future is not ignore my husband while watching TV, since this evidently annoys him. If I was in a life-threatening situation (i.e. if I was a character in Morse rather than simply watching it), then I probably wouldn't pay attention if he spoke to me, but I imagine he would probably have wit enough to assess the situation for himself.

The point is (and I do seem to keep having going over this) is that I LIKE being spanked. I am not afraid of being spanked. Being spanked does not change my behaviour (except in sofar as it generally puts me in a better mood). I would not refrain from ignoring my husband while watching TV because I am afraid of being spanked, but because I realise that this is something that seriously annoys him. Were it a situation of genuine importance, rather than merely a TV show (though you cannot properly call Morse 'merely' a TV show, it is one of the all-time greats) then I would act entirely differently.

I told my husband, at the beginning of our Taken In Hand relationship, that I would try harder not to do the things that annoy him if he would try harder not to lose his temper with me. This has mostly worked for the benefit of our relationship. We are both highly-strung and somewhat excitable people, but Taken In Hand has had a generally calming and relaxing effect on both of us. It was my choice to tell my husband I would try to abide by his decisions on domestic matters, the idea came from me, not him. This is not something I have had imposed on me, it is something I wanted, and in fact I like it very much. I do not think my husband would be at all surprised if I reacted again in the same way when he asked me a question while I was absorbed in a TV show, he does not really expect spanking to have any permanent affect on my behaviour. However, knowing that something I have done has really seriously annoyed him does give me pause for thought. I do not really want to cause him serious annoyance, even though the consequences may be ultimately highly pleasurable to me.

If one of our children had reacted to my husband in the way I did he would probably have been annoyed, and he would certainly not have beaten him. He beats me because it's what I asked him to do in such situations, and because I like it.

I don't think any of this will make any difference to you, you are evidently determined to see me as the victim of some sinister attempt by my husband to oppress me, and I don't think there's anything I can really do about that. I've just watched this afternoon's episode of Morse and there were FIVE murders in this one, and that really is enough injury and death for me to contemplate in one day.

Louise

Now I don't think that you are a victim of your husband.

You explained the dynamics of your relationships with clarity, so now I don't think that you are a victim of your husband. Well, to be completely honest, I think that he is as much your victim as you are his victim ;))

But as there are things that I don't understand, so there may be things that you don't understand. For example, I believe both of you don't understand how our reflexes evolve with experience. The fact that you actually love spanking does not mean that you can't be conditioned into abandoning some activity through the use of spanking. I use the word "conditioned" with purpose—I mean that something can change without your conscious decision to change.

You love spanking because your neural paths are wired that way. I don't know why—maybe you have some genetic predisposition, or maybe it's the result of some your childhood experience, or maybe both. Nevertheless, some part of your brain does regard pain as actually negative experience—otherwise you would not be able to survive. And it is quite probable that that part of brain can't really distinguish between pain of spanking and other sorts of pain to process them differently. By the way, in your original post there is more than one hint that part of you actually regards this experience as negative. If you manage to condition that part of your brain to function in different fashion it will have profound effect on your overall functioning, so involuntary distractions in life-threatening situations will be quite possible. And intense pain that you perceive to be a direct result of the way you manage your attention is exactly the sort of stimulus that can alter the functioning of this mechanism (even if you actually LOVE this pain on some higher level of your personality).

Our attention is managed at the very low level—by parts of the brain that are quite ancient and primitive, so it is not easy to change the way it is managed, and it is probably impossible to make this part of the brain to take into consideration such subtle things as are you watching TV or really find yourself in some real-life situation that needs your attention. Such things can be taken into account only on the higher level. So it's better if you find the way to avoid dismissing or otherwise annoying your husband without altering your basic attention-management mechanism. For example, maybe you can find the way to change emotions you feel in such moments towards your husband—after all, when he approaches you with a question about how to do something he is doing just because he cares for you, is not warmth or gratitude or something like that a more appropriate feeling? And spanking that you need so much may be just that—something you get just because you need it. And, probably, an outlet for your husband to vent his frustration with you concerning things that you do to him that are less fundamental than the way you manage your attention.

To be honest I did not have in mind all this when I wrote my first message. I just did not understand some things I understand now. But the reason I wrote something here while remaining silent on the other pages although there are plenty of things I'm not comfortable with there, is that I sensed in your message something potentially very dangerous—more dangerous than, say, "rape as a gift" and the like. My subsequent messages just expressed my evolving understanding of what is that that I've found so disturbing in your original post. Your replies dismissed my initial impression of what was wrong (so wrong as to warrant my postings) and helped me to understand myself better. Thank you.

If what I wrote is of any use to you, it would be great. Because I still think it is quite possible under certain circumstances to change some of your basic reflexes through spanking despite the fact you actually love spanking. And I think it would be quite undesirable, even dangerous, side-effect.

Of for goodness sake!

Don't take things so seriously! She's not going to lose the reflexes that prevent her from walking in front of a bus just because she finds sexual satisfaction from spanking.

Life threatening situations

My husband has not altered any of my reflexes through spanking, and I seriously doubt that he ever could. I have a very low threshold for most pain, and very little physical courage, but I have a capacity to apparently endure any amount of spanking with sufficient incentive (when I say 'any amount' I don't think I've actually ever had a spanking that lasted more than about five or ten minutes, though some have claimed theirs has gone on for hours).

I have never yet been in a life-threatening situation (unless you count the three times I gave birth, and in those cases it was out of my husband's control to do anything about it). Watching 'Inspector Morse' is not life-threatening, though it may be bad for me at my time of life to be having to cope with the excitement of three murders and a suicide attempt. Should I ever find myself in a life-threatening situation I will bear in mind what you said. I have always wanted to be the sort of person who did get into life-threatening situations, I wanted to be Robin Hood when I was young, and have never quite shaken off the yearning, perhaps somehow my unsatisfied yearning to be a hero has somehow unconsciously suggeste dto you that I am a person whose life is full of danger?

I identify strongly with Morse because he is morose, sullen, and sarcastic, in fact a kindred spirit. I don't suppose he would be an easy person to live with, and I don't suppose I am either. I haven't always found my husband easy to live with, but since we discovered Taken In Hand things have greatly improved between us. We get along a lot better as a result of discovering this site

There are plenty of things on here I'm not comfortable with, when I first discovered this site I kept muttering incredulously to myself "These people cannot be serious" and I had a number of mixed emotions (envy being promient among them. There are still things I read that make me recoil. But this doesn't really matter, because Taken In Hand covers a wide variety of relationships. Basically what I think defines Taken In Hand is that women in Taken In Hand relationships get PLEASURE out of being in a male-led relationship, and I get a great deal of pleasure out of it. I LIKE the nature of my interaction with my husband, it has enhanced things for both of us. We get on better.

Look, life is a bloody awful business, and anything that helps you to get through this Vale of Tears is a good thing, and Taken In Hand does it for us. There is nothing more sinister to it than that.

Louise

Conditioning

I understand Louise's irritation at being interrupted at the denouement of an episode of Morse. After all, imagine you were watching the latest Bond film (say) in the cinema and just at the dramatic climax, someone tries to strike up a conversation with you about what to have for dinner later.

I don't think any kind of conditioning around Louise's expression of her irritation in such circumstances is going to generalise to life and death situations. Perhaps instead of no longer becoming irritated in such circumstances she will merely express that irritation differently. So for example instead of waving away any intrusions she might politely say "Would you mind giving me a couple more minutes, this is a really exciting bit". There will still be felt irritation at an interruption at a crucial point in 'Morse' but the expression of it would be more polite and thus less likely to annoy her husband. The emotional response would not be eradicated but it would be possible to stop for a split second and substitute a polite response rather than a dismissive one.

Precisely

Lauren, you have got it exactly right. The way you describe it is just how it is. It's not about having been rendered incapable of coping in life-threatening situations, it's about being a little more considerate and polite towards my husband if he asks me a question when I'm watching TV!

Louise

Limbic Reactivity

I am a practicing physician and neuroscientist. I think the concerned reader is saying that limbic reactivity (primitive emotional reactivity) will be decreased by a Taken in Hand relationship because practioners will become inured to pain because of spanking. So the reader is worried about Louise because she is afraid that she may lose her ability to direct her attention forcefully to threats when her life may be in danger.

I agree that for Taken in Hand practitioners, spanking coupled to sexual release (in a loving relationship) probably leads to decreased long-term limbic reactivity. I don't agree, however, that this state is dangerous.

We know that depression, anger, inactivity, chronic distractions, and stress increase limbic reactivity. Conversely, happiness, relaxation, sexual release, post-exercise states, and meditative states (emphasizing mindfulness) decrease limbic reactivity.

I do agree that high levels of limbic reactiviy probably helped our evolutionary ancestors to survive in the extremely violent circumstances in which they found themselves. Remember, our ancestors reproduced and died usually before they were 25 years old.

But we now live two to three times that long or more. And limbic reactivity over the long-term is not good for brain health. Stretch a rubber-band for a while and it will rebound forcefully. Stretch it for too long, and it will lose its shape.

Chronic limbic hyper-reactivity causes decreases in brain volume, memory capacity, and frontal lobe mediated attention, as well as increases in depression and stroke. It causes hypertension, obesity around the stomach, earlier onset diabetes, and major increases in cardiovascular death.

In short, our ability to mentally and physically handle acute and chronic stress over a life-time is damaged by the very process that may have helped our evolutionary ancestors to survive just long enough to reproduce.

I think the concerned reader can relax and know that Louise will probably be OK. If Louise is enjoying herself and her relationship with her husband, more power to both of them. They are doing what is good for their mental health, but likely also their physical health.

The right perscription

I think the good doctor has got it exactly right. If there's one thing my husband and I do not need in our lives it's any more limbic reactivity, as it is our nerves are so tightly stretched you can hear them twanging sometimes. Less of the limbics is doing us both good.

Louise

Louise I envy you, don't take delivery on ignorance

To the poster that is concerned about Louise, I question why you posted here in the first place since you are obviously ignorant to everything that Taken in Hand represents. There is no abuse in Louise's marriage and her husband is a very wonderful, loving man and this is what they have decided they want as a team so who are you to challenge it? I love a good spanking and if over the years, it damages a muscle..... so be it. I type everyday for a living knowing carpal tunnel is possible or maybe none of us should do anything enjoyable for fear of being inadvertently harmed.

Louise is good enough to share with those of us that have an interest in this and your response is to question her self esteem? Until you have a full understanding of something, maybe in the future you should refrain from commenting on things you know nothing of.

totallyhot in nj

Dear reader "not offending anybody"

I happened to change my mind from one similar to yours to one deeply understanding our wonderful Louise, in a word—I hope to be taken in hand by my husband. This all happened in a year.
What I got to know is that a couple is not a set of two self-reliant people; it is a whole of two poles which cannot be cut. The ultimate value is the marriage—the basis. As a pair we are incredibly much stronger then we were before this connection (we have been married for 20 years before).
Yes I am little bit more reliant on my husband and living without him would be more difficult, but this is well known story, isn't it?
You can't be self-contained individual at the same time as a part of "us".
I am much more happier now. And honestly I believe that we together are more grown-up, more in force and bringing more cheer to our related.

Hali

Wow! What a judgemental and

Wow! What a judgemental and harsh reaction to something that you know nothing about. I can safely say that as I have struggled considerably to understand this dynamic between husband and wife or lovers. Here is what I have found:

You can truly never understand fully until you live it. Then and only then can you judge. I also thought people on this site must have something missing but since I now live this lifestyle I have awoken to a different reality.
Mainly that for two people madly in love and respectful and considerate of one another this lifestyle can and does up the intensity level considerably.

It is so easy to judge others and spout off at the mouth (or computer) about which there is no understanding. This just shows a lack of intelligence and a desperate need to impose your viewpoints onto others which in my opinion makes you a sad person.

want to be taken

This was a question I had—I was somewhat relieved to find this site because I often get these feelings that I "need" some control in my life. I am in control most of the time and I really would like to see my husband take me in hand. He doesn't seem to understand, I like the playful stuff, but sometimes something inside just cries out for more. Don't get me wrong, it's not necessarily the spanking but just the control. If I say no, will he stand firm? However, we have 3 children, and there is not usually a good spontaneuous way to do this. How do you do this with kids?

Kids

Well, I have to say that my own husband has no qualms whatsoever about laying down the law to me, or rebuking me about something, in front of the children. It is not something that disturbs him in the least, and I have found that I don't particularly mind it. The children don't seem to be bothered by it either.

However, he doesn't always have to say anything, sometimes just a look is sufficient to quell any rebellion on my part, and your husband could probably do this if he tried.

As far as the spanking goes, if you want that, you can always wait until the children are out (if they are teenagers they must be out a good deal, I would imagine). Either that, or wait until they are in their rooms playing horrible loud music, they won't hear anything over that.

Louise

If you don't get it, maybe you need to understand it better befo

Personally, I feel that the poster who wrote that comment has no buisness on here making assumptions to the way people live. Like Louise, I love when my husband not only spanks me but punishes me in any way he sees fit. I don't feel like a freak, a child or abused in any way. I am not a victim. I feel that "Just don't get it" is the victim—the victim of ignorance, posting on a site in which s/he has absolutely no clue what Taken in Hand means. First and most important we choose as two consensual adults to live like this and it is our choice and right. Abuse comes from a relationship in which one partner is insecure and beats his or her partner into submission. Taken in hand isn't about being made to be submissive, it's something born in a person, I feel. The men aren't insecure, and the main thing is that the spankings (in those Taken In Hand relationships having spanking—not all do by any means) are CONSENSUAL. My husband doesn't have some sick desire to cause me pain. He does it because we, as ADULTS with FREEDOM, choose to live this way and it works for us. "Just Don't Get It"—don't knock it till you try it.

It's been ages since I've commented

Well it's been ages since I've commented but not ages since I've read anything. I love the Taken In Hand website since I have a strong desire to live this way. My husband tried a very long time and was successful at it for a while but then it fizzled out because of different circumstances in our life. We might give it a try in the near future again. That being said I wanted to throw in my opinion on this thread here.

To the viewer who commented on this I'm curious what brought you to this site in the first place? Could it be that you have an inner desire that you just can't figure out?

I say this because I like Louise and countless others on this site have had this desire for years. There is nothing abnormal about it at all. It's something deep inside of us and nothing we say or do can convince us it isn't right for our way of life. Thank goodness there are others out there like the boss who are willing to aid us with sites like these.

For a person to just stumble on this site or any other and make such strong comments about it without reading everything is wrong in my eyes. Study things first. Thank goodness you addressed Louise because as you have read from others she is one of the most sane people alive and she doesn't take offense when being under fire so to speak. She never cowers or hides how she feels. She is one of the delightfulest people it has been my honor to know. Online or off. Almost everyone on this or other sites stay tuned to what she has to say because she is so honest in her postings. This way of life she credits to a happy and harmonious marriage. Who doesn't want that? All of us and so far this seems to work with most people.

I think that you yourself want this and maybe are trying to talk yourself out of it as thinking you might be odd. I'm here to tell you it's not odd. It's a great way to feel and live. If this is the case why don't you try asking questions before making such direct statements. You might find that you're indeed one of us in that you too think this way of life might lend to a happier life as well.

Sorry I rambled on but no matter if my relationship is Taken In Hand or not I'll defend it to the death...hehe!!! Keep up the great post Louise. You have faithful readers that love what you write. I'm one of them...LOL!!!

To Kathy

It's nice to see you posting again Kathy! I'm sorry that things haven't gone too swimmingly with your husband, maybe you can get him interested again?

You never know what's going to happen on here, when I wrote about this incident I thought it might amuse a few people, I never thought to find myself at the centre of a medical controversy!

Anyway, I'm very grateful to you and all the other readers who have been kind enough to comment favourably on my writing

Is this the point where we send each other huggles and kisses?

Louise

You go girl!

Upon reading all of this I can't believe that someone who knows nothing about taken in hand relationships would have the boldness to judge another's relationship. I have been a Taken in hand wife for several years now and would have it no other way.

After reading Louise's post I understand it completely there is nothing odd about it nothing psychological to trip out about and is simply how she and her husband have chosen to have their relationship.

From reading Lousie's posts she is very honest about her needs and her marriage and I find nothing wrong with that. Her posts are very interesting and when I come onto the sight I look for her most recent writings.

Lousie 'You go girl"!

Where is the line to abusive for you?

I'm sorry if i get over a line here myself, judging your relationship, which is normally a big no-no for me, but i don't think a harsh steel-ruler spanking is an acceptable punishment for shushing your husband. In my opinion that clearly is in the realm of abusive behaviour.

Also, I would strongly discourage using something as a steel ruler as a means of punishment, since something that hard could easily inflict serious injury.

Re: Where is the line to abusive for you?

Oh, enough already!!!

What is acceptable is relative, and can only be determined by the consenting individuals who are involved.

And what is abusive is in the mind (and the behind) of the beholder.

An emotionally fragile woman could be harmed significantly by mere words, while some women find even an intense caning or whipping (done with care) to be emotionally and/or sexually satisfying.

The steel rulers that are mentioned on this site are lightweight, thin and flexible. They sting and burn like crazy, because they evoke a response primarily from surface tissues, and don’t have the rapid surface numbing effect of a heavy instrument.

But, because they have very little mass, they are much less likely than other implements to cause serious injury. For example, they do not have the bone or deep-muscle injury potential of a heavy wooden paddle, the missed target-area potential of a long strap, or the high-velocity danger of some types of whips.

In a consensual relationship between mature individuals, the opinions of the people involved are the only ones that matter.

And uninformed judgments by busybody bystanders are unhelpful and irrelevant, but can destroy wonderful lives if they cause authorities to become involved.

Oh, for heaven's sake!

How many times do I have to keep saying this. I LIKE BEING SPANKED. I am not afraid of being spanked. I do not regard being spanked as abusive behaviour because it is something my husband knows I WANT him to do to me. If you are under the impression that I consider being spanked abuisve then you have not been paying attention to anything I have ever written on this site. As for what I get spanked for, that is entirely up to my husband. What he wants to spank me for is things that annoy him. For instance, yesterday he had to unblock the drain on the washing machine because I'd put something in the machine that shouldn't have been in there. He was not happy about this. I did not block the drain on purpose, it was purely a mistake, but it didn't stop him being annoyed about it. Did I get spanked for it? Yes, I did, to the satisfaction of both of us. This was not abuse.

My husband spanks me for things that cause him annoyance, to a smaller or larger degree. Whether the actual thing I did was of grave importance or not is not the issue, it is the amount of annoyance it causes him that determines the length and severity of my punishment. Things that are serious matters to other people trouble him not at all. It tends to be small domestic matters that drive him mad. Married life is full of petty irritations, and spanking is a way for us to cope with these. Spanking me does both of us good, and we invariably feel better afterwards.

As for the steel ruler, it is hard but it is also thin and flexible and although it stings like mad is, I would think, less likely to do me damage than the wooden paddle which is his other favourite implement and which I understand can cause damage if used carelessly (I read somewhere or other about someone sustaining a broken cocyx as a result of the paddle falling in the wrong place). He's been using the steel ruler for over two years now and it's done me no harm (neither has the paddle come to that) and I don't really think there's much chance of it.

Look, I can understand that things that are written about on here can seem abusive to someone who isn't into the same things. But since practically every comment I've ever written on here has probably contained some reference to the fact that I get a tremendous kick out of being spanked, I honestly don't see how you can think that 'abuse' is what is going on here.

And if anyone would like to know, the blocked drain that my husband had to work on last night was caused by a 50p and a 5p piece stuck in the drainpipe. This earned me 55 whacks each with the steel ruler and the wooden paddle (the last 10 of each extra-hard). And I was quite happy with that, once I'd stopped whimpering.

Louise

Until you're blue in the face? :-)

Well said, Louise! You tell 'em!

It is interesting, though, isn't it, that some people seem completely UNABLE to hear your very clear statements that you love being spanked and that your husband is a kind and certainly not abusive man.

I think we all have the odd blindspot that causes us to misinterpret some things wildly. I will try to remember this very clear (to me!) example next time I myself leap to a conclusion like the one above. I know I have been similarly mistaken in the past, though not in regard to you and your lovely husband, it has to be said.

Even worse

Since he travels to the USA a good deal it could, as he pointed out, have been cents rather than pence, which at the current exchange rate would have made it over 100 with each.

Louise

Why some people think it`s abuse

The reason some people think it`s abuse is probably because Louise is talking about 50, 80 or even 100 hits. Sure if she likes it that way it may not be abuse, but it`s not so surprising that even though she says she likes it people believe it is abuse, simply because of the number of hits her husband gives her and the implements he uses. My husband uses a crop, I don`t know if it stings more than a steel ruler, but I do know that I never look forward to being spanked with it and I already feel after 5 hits that I can`t take anymore. Perhaps some people also think Louise needs help because she`s to much of a masochist, I can also understand that. Being able to take so many hits and still get turned on by it, you have to be an extreme masochist in my eyes.
Autumn

If I wouldn’t enjoy it, then you are being abused

Some of you are missing the point that there can be no objective criterion for abuse.

There is no way to define abuse as any specific series of actions, because abuse is a mental experience of the recipient. It is purely subjective.

Above all else, there must be consent. If an interaction is not consensual, then it is abusive, irrespective of whether it is 1 stroke or 101.

(And we are not talking here about consensual stupidity that causes debilitating injuries!)

Beyond that, what constitutes an ultimately positive experience depends on how a woman is “wired” and how she perceives her limits, and the emotional context.

Different types of physical stimulation are sometimes all lumped together, but there are various types of “pain” and the word “masochist” is sometimes used a bit too loosely. A woman who enjoys being spanked probably doesn’t have an orgasm after accidentally dropping something heavy on her foot.

Only the woman involved knows what she needs in order to be fulfilled, happy and secure.

For those of you who haven’t noticed, different people experience the same input differently!!!

Some people jump into lakes that are partially frozen (I think that they belong to a masochist society called the “Polar Bear Club”). Others listen to incomprehensible poetry readings, and even opera, without being in BDSM restraints! ;-)

It really is meaningless to extrapolate from one person to another. That one person experiences 50 strokes in a specific way says absolutely nothing about how another person might experience 150 strokes.

A woman once told me that receiving around 200 strokes with the type of whip that looks like a very thin and flexible cane with a short thin leather strap at the end (it is painful but the marks disappear in a couple of days) puts her into a “relaxed and dreamy state.”

Context is also very important. For woman who needs to experience a man’s control in a direct and intense way, a punishment spanking (even if not pleasurable itself) can be a necessary part of an ultimately life enhancing experience.

And, for a woman to be able to experience being safe while not being in control, this type of spanking needs to exceed the woman’s limits, as she perceives them, by being slightly more than she would have chosen for herself. (This is one of the reasons why blanket consent is so valuable.)

These dynamics tend to become complicated, and Louise is well beyond any of these simple thoughts. Her situation may be the most complex of all—she has even admitted to leaving Nesquik on the counter!!! ;-)

Oh bloody nora

Look. If a man was making love to a woman, and perhaps the angle of penetration makes her grunt, is that abuse??? NO because it is enjoyable to both of them, it's consensual, and it's part of the shared experience. Yes it's driven by the male, and yes it's in a way 'controlled' by how much he will 'push' the situation, but ultimately, it is not rape. It can't be. And by the way, pain in sex of any kind does not equal rape. Hence spanking is not abuse. It might hurt, it might cause her to cry out, but it is only possible for it to be a spanking and not abuse, IF it is enjoyable to both, consensual, and shared.

In behaviour and psychology, it is easy to forget that all behaviour is designed to meet our needs. Louise and others do what they do because it meets their needs. Abusees may also allow things to happen to them in order to meet their needs. BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE LOUISE AN ABUSEE. She and others like her merely choose their own way to feel good, which may not necessarily be the same way that others get to feel good. But that doesn't mean that it's wrong, or insane, or abused. It means it's a colour choice like 'shall I wear the red or the blue today'. It's up to the individual, there isn't a right or wrong in this story. If they want pain, and the amount of pain varies to make the different individuals feel right, then that's fine. Substitute the word 'blue' for pain and you'll see how it is really just down to the individual!!!

Sexual dynamics are such that the man IS a posessing and dominant force, and the woman is the one who has to 'open' herself to her male. This in itself does not mean that we can say that males are abusive in their sexuality. Whoever it is that is writing these anonymous posts I might suggest they take a good look in the mirror and check first why they might find a need to categorize every sexual driver of others—sex is a good thing you know, honest, whatever colour it comes in!!!

abuse etc

I know this is an old thread but I just wanted to say that I wish my husband would react in the way the Louise's did when he was rudely dismissed. That way it would prevent my loving hubby suffering psychological abuse at the hands of my regular flapping dismissiveness when I'm engrossed. I am quite convinced that such a lesson would bring triggers to my mind that would stop me being such a rat bag at times.

Triggers

Well,it certainly has brought triggers to my mind, I wouldn't flap my hand at him now no matter what I was watching on TV. If I'm watching something where I know I absolutely must see the ending, like a new episode of 'Midsomer Murders' or 'New Tricks' or something, then I make sure I record it so that I can watch it again if I miss any salient points.

Maybe you could hint to your husband that he doesn't have to put up with your hand-flapping if he dislikes it? Perhaps he needs a little nudge in the right direction?

Louise

hints

I've tried hints, nudges etc. If I nudged him any harder he would fall over.
I think it is just something that is going to take him time. Over the last 18 months or so he has got much better at telling me when I've hacked him off but his natural inclination is to walk away and swallow his anger/frustration.
I truly believe it would only take one severe spanking totally instigated by him to make big changes in my attitude but that is a long way off yet. I do believe it will come though whereas up until a few months ago I wasn't at all sure.

Walking away

Your husband sounds a lot like me in temperement. My inclination is always to walk away, swallow anger/frustration etc. Nowadays, however, I tend to be more open about expressing emotions. Apart from anything else, however much I may try to swallow anger/frustration etc,it apparently always shows in my face and I am likely to get whacked anyway,for what my husband accurately describes as "dumb insolence" so I might as well express myself in the first place!

I hope your husband will get around to expressing himself in the way you want him to.

Louise

Louise

What Constitutes Abuse?

I haven't posted here before, though I do have some knowledge of both corporal punishment and abuse.

Firstly, abused people rarely share their experiences as readily as Louise shared hers. Abused people will often feel a sense of shame to the extent that they hide the signs of abuse from the world. Louise has proudly described the occasion, and moreover given a stout defence of her husband.

Secondly, there is a lifestyle choice which some people make in which they hand over to their partner control (in varying degrees) of aspects of their life. They want, for whatever reason, someone else to tell them what to do and how to behave. If such a lifestyle option is to work (and it often does) then by and large the couple concerned will agree in advance that discipline will be enforced within the rules of their relationship.

Thirdly, and closely allied to the above, is the issue of consent. Louise has agreed willingly to be taken in hand. It works for some, it doesn't for others. It would have been abuse had that consent not been present, and I would have been among the first to criticise.

Fourthly, having established a relationship where Louise has ceded control of certain aspects of her life to her husband, she has an expectation that her husband will live up to his end of the bargain. This means that if she behaves in what I would call a brat like manner, then it requires her husband not only to point it out, but to do so in a fairly robust manner. Louise not only consents to this, she actually wants it.

I don't often spank, it makes my hand hurt too much. In this case the chances are the dog would have had Louise's burger, and Louise would have been ignored for about 24 hours. I'd imagine a spanking would be preferable.

Donnachaidh

100 is not so many!!!

To tell the truth 100 is not that many hits. You'd be surprised if you actually count them the next time. My husband spanked me once and I decided to count and it lasted all of about 3 minutes and I stopped counting after 100. I know Louise and I wager any bet that this spanking was not as many smacks as she's had in the past...right Louise?

I will admit I've questioned that some of the things I've read on these sites is abuse but what goes on in Louise's house IS NOT!!! She's as happy as a clam and content how many abused women are like that?

100 is a lot

I never said that I think what goes on in Louise`s house is abuse, I just tried to explain why some people may think that it is abuse. And the number of hits may have something to do with it. I think 100 hard hits with the crop would leave all kinds of bruises and probably would cut the skin. I`ve had as many as 30 or maybe even 40 hits with the crop, they wasn’t that hard but still hurt like crazy and I had the feeling that I couldn`t take anymore.
Autumn

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