I think it is important to remember that the films in which wives get spanked by their husbands are usually comedies, not necessarily meant to be taken that seriously. Desi may have spanked Lucy in a couple of episodes of I Love Lucy when he lost his temper with her, but there is no indication in the series that there is any formalised DD relationship between them, the spankings are spontaneous spur-of-the-moment occurences.

Nor do they have the slightest effect upon Lucy's behaviour. I am always puzzled when people bring up 'I Love Lucy' as an example of a TV programme which shows a man with authority, because Lucy never takes the slightest notice of anything Desi says in this programme. She continues to go her own sweet way regardless of what Desi says to her (it would have been a very dull programme if she hadn't).

Although it may have been nominally the norm for women to obey their husbands in the past, I doubt if wive were always as happily docile in the past as all that. There have always been plenty of women around who did not do as they were told, just as there have always been plenty of men around who didn't want to be authority figures. And I doubt if the amount of control that men exercies over their wives in the past was as great as that in many Taken In Hand relationships described on this site. when I was a child, in the 60s, I don't remember any women asking their husbands permission to go shopping, for instance.

I don't personally yearn for a time when female submissiveness in marriage was taken for granted, I much prefer to live in a society that regards egalitarian marriage as normal. I enjoy having a Taken In Hand relationship with my husband, but part of the pleasure of it for me is the fact that it is voluntary, and I don't have to live like that if I don't want to. Nobody, as far as I'm aware, is preventing anyone from living like this if they want to.

I very much understand the point here but personally I think if it was expected of me to submit to whoever I married I would rebel from that role. I don't think I would ever accept being subordinate in my marriage if I felt that this was a moral requirement that society laid on me. I suppose I would prefer my submission to be a gift and to be a special one. Apart from that I don't think all men are capable of being good HoHs. Perhaps it used to be different when there were different expectations on men, but a good 99% of the men I meet, and especially youngish men, don't seem to have any potential as a leader.

If taken in hand was the norm feminism would probably happen all over again because someone felt forced into a role they didn't want. At present I find the idea of having a relationship which strays from the norm quite exciting - but maybe that will change.

I do think it's sad that there are so many people who are unhappy in their relationships who Taken in Hand could help but that will only happen when Taken in Hand is publicised more.

Jessica

If the idea of a man being HOH is so unacceptable in today's society, then why the veritable flood of books advocating that women submit 'Fascinating Womanhood' Surrendered Wife' 'Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands' etc, there are loads of them, and publishers must be making money out of them otherwise they wouldn't keep appearing. People appear to be lapping up the idea.

I don't mind people knowing that my husband has the last word on decision making etc, but I certainly wouldn't want to advertise the fact that he spanks me, some things are just too personal.

I not only would love to have a neighbor who I could discuss this with but also to be able to discuss this with just anyone who I might be comfortable enough with. It is amazing the reaction I get just from saying that I respect my husband or that I fold his shirts the way he wants me to. People look at me like I am whatever the female equivalent of "p-whipped" is.

Sometimes it would be nice to get the perspective of someone who isn't in this type of lifestyle without getting the "gee, he certainly has your number" attitude.

When people ask me why we are so happy or how we are still so involved with one another even after so long together, I would like to tell them of the way we run our relationship but I don't feel comfortable doing that because - though it is possible I would get an open, thoughtful response - it is just as likely, if not more so, that I would get something insulting or derisive or concerned (as if I was in an abusive relationship).

I don't want this to be mandated in any way, I just wish we didn't have to hide it so much.

Otter*

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"The moment that I looked into your eyes, you owned me."
-Kenny Chesney

I don´t really feel like I have to hide so much. I never had the urge to talk over such personal details about our relationship with friends and damn sure not with neighbors. Other people have secrets too and I believe that no matter how close the friends are, they don`t have to know everything.

My husband did say to some of our friends before that if I don`t listen to him I get spanked and I said before that I`m his slave, but it was during a time when we were all in a party mood and joking about it. I don`t know how serious they took it. We`ve got a friend who is very submissive in every way. She always likes to see everybody happy. She told us the other day that when she and her husband are out shopping or in any other puplic place he whistles for her. My husband and me talked and joked about it afterwards and I don´t think I could get used to that, it would make me feel like I`m his dog not his wife. She also has the opinion that since he built their house himself he can smoke in the house and let his friends smoke their too even though she is a nonsmoker and the smoke bothers her. I can not relate to that, I would at least try to make him see how unhealthy it is for her and also their kids to have to breath in his smoke. But she doesn`t even try. I`m pretty sure that he does not spank her, but even if he does I`m not interested in that part of their relationship.

No matter what if you tell people about your relationship and they don`t practice the same thing, there is a chance that they might talk about it to others and joke about it. Even the best of friends like to gossip. If I want to seriously talk to someone about our relationship I talk to my husband, he`s my best friend anyhow and that`s why only he can give me the best advice if I have a question or I`m unsure about something.

Autumn

In addition to the three books mentioned above, I found on amazon; "Liberated Through Submission" by P.B. Wilson, "The Excellent Wife" by Martha Pearce, "What Makes a Man Feel Loved" by Bob Barnes, "Finding the Hero in your Husband" by Julianna Slattery, "The Politically Incorrect Wife" by Carol somebody or other (I can't read my writing) and Nancy Cobb, and "Me? Obey Him?" by Elizabeth Rice Handford. You can't throw a brick on amazon without hitting one of these books.

Just reading the reviews of them was enough to induce faint nausea in me. The only book that I have ever found that suggested female submission without making me feel ill was 'Getting to "I Do"' by Pat Allen and Sandra Harmon. What made this book different for me was the authors' far more fexible attitude, they didn't suggest that this was the only way a marriage could be, or that there wasn't room for negotiation and flexibility between the partners.

Most of all though, what makes it different is the emphasis on the woman getting what she wants out of the relationship, as a naturally self-centred person I found this appealed to me. It was what attracted me to Taken In Hand, the enticing possibility not that I could make my husband happier by submitting to him, but that I could make myself happier.

Also, of course, all those other books (except for Surrendered Wife) are Bible-based, which as I have no religion (except in moments of crisis) doesn't appeal to me.

Eventually, I expect, the boss will publish the users' guide to having a Taken In Hand relationship, and then maybe the thing will really take off.

What made 'Getting to 'I Do'' seem much more appealing to me than 'The surrendered Wife' is that it isn't based on pretcence. Pat Allen doesn't suggest that a woman should pretend to be passive or ignorant or have no opinions of her own. She suggests that a woman should work out what she wants from a relationship, and if she is a 'feminine energy' woman, then she will get pleasure from following a man's lead, and accepting what he gives her. What struck me very forcibly was her point that a 'feminine energy' woman should accept graciously what her man gives her, and that means accepting the things she doesn't like as well as the things that she does. It occured to me that this was what was wrong in my own marriage, that whereas i had always accepted happily the good things my husband gave me, love, attention, money etc, I had been less than gracious about accepting the things that I didn't particularly want, like advice about how to do things etc. Accepting that he has the authority to tell me what I should do, and how I should do it, has made our lives a lot easier. Feeling that he is listened to, and that I will at least try (not always succesfully) to do what he wants me to, has made him better tempered and more reasonable, it has made life easier for both of us. Realising that a self-help book actually had something to say that was of relevence to me and made sense, disconcerted me rather, since I started out reading the book fully determined to utterly despise it, but there you are.

I take your point about most of these books being Bible-based, Getting to 'I Do' is the only book I know of that suggests that being in a male-led relationship might actually be fun. I personally find it pleasurable doing things that will please my husband, even housework isn't such a bore when I think of it as something I am doing to please him, rather than something I'm just doing because I should. The Biblical approach never had any appeal for me.

I don't think a prejudice against homosexuality is precisely the same as a prejudice against male-led relationships though. I mean, in a society which is seriously prejudiced against homosexuals, men who were in a relationship would have to keep it concealed from society, whereas a couple in a Taken In Hand relationship don't have to pretend they're not together, they just have to be discreet about some of the details.

I am slightly ambivalent about whether or not I would want other people to know I had this kind of relationship, but if there was a good book about it (like the definitive Taken In Hand guide which I am sure the boss will produce eventually), it might make things easier. When people asked me what my marriage was like I could just say "read the book". Whether I would ever become sufficiently uninhibited to do that though I doubt.

Would I feel comfortable telling them? Well no, probably not, but then I'm not much given to discussing very intimate details of my personal relationships anyway. I mean, relations with my husband have improved through us having a Taken In Hand relationship but I don't know that I'd want to go into details about it.

For instance, I was talking over with my best friend recently the fact that Dave and I get on a lot better these days, and I told her the truth, as far as it went: which was that I try harder not to do the things that annoy him, and he tries harder not to lose his temper with me when I do. And that's true. I didn't tell her any of the more personal details about it, I don't know how she'd react to it. "We're both more tolerant of each other" I said, and that is true. Could I say to her "I accept that he has the authority to tell me what to do, and to punish me if I don't do as I'm told"? I don't think I could.

There's a comment from Autumn earlier in this discussion where she says I think that there's going to be people who will be disapproving of certain things even if they are more commonly accepted. Even if Taken In Hand became more widely known and it was considered 'normal' for people to have this kind of relationship, you're still going to get people who'd be freaked out by it. I'd still be very cautious about who I talked to about it, even if the Taken In Hand book became a bestseller like 'The Surrendered Wife' or something.

That's what's so great about the Inernet, you can always find people who are interested in the things you're interested in, even when it's something that you didn't really know you were interested in, until you found it, as I found with this site.

It would be nice if people were more openminded about a lot of things but they aren't and we just have to live with that. Some groups have organized themselves to fight for the right to be open about who they are, and that's commendable.

There's been a history of men exploiting women in many ways and so if you go about telling your friends that you have chosen to answer to your husband in all things they are justified in worrying that he has you under his thumb without your consent.

But if you tell them this is how you want to live that should be enough for them. Take care, however, that you don't proselytize: that is the fastest way to turn people off. For instance there was someone's husband going around saying, Oh if your wife acts up just turn her over your knee.

Now that guy ought to hush up. No one asked for his advice, first of all, and secondly that is going to be a great way to get himself looked at as an abuser, since what he's advocating there ISN'T consensual. He may have consent from his own wife but he's got no business telling his friends and especially people at work that they ought to just go ahead and take their wives in hand, whether said wife agrees to it or not.

It's a fine line, because people often feel their way is best and in subtle ways they do push it on others.

Also, I don't really want to know the inner details of someone else's marriage. And I'm not interested in sharing mine. I think it's best to live the way you want to live and accept that you aren't going to have the approval of the herd.

"Pat"

I am in a Taken In Hand marriage and I don't feel isolated at all. I do have friends that I speak with about my marriage - sometimes jokingly and sometimes seriously. Spanking is extremely rare in my marriage, so perhaps the focus I share is that my husband is the HOH, that I do what he asks, when he asks (mostly), and that I am happy.

When I first told my girlfriends, they all commented that it would be simple for me to obey because S dotes over me like a spoiled child, gives me anything I ask for, doesn't ask for anything, is easy going and is friendly to everyone he meets. While some of that is true (I take exception to the spoiled child comment), I think the key is we have very little tension between us because his word is final and I rarely deviate.

We discuss things and he asks for my input sometimes, but the final decision is his & I accept it & live with the results. Rarely have I been let down because two of my husband's best traits are that he is smart and rational - hence he rarely makes decisions that would put us at any type of personal risk. And for the few bad decisions he makes (like not reading maps!), the smile or look of aggravation on my face says I TOLD YOU SO! louder than I could ever voice on my own. LOL

Now all that being said, he is possessive, requires me to have my cell phone at all times so he can get me if he needs to, expects me to be respectful to him in front of people (this is a big one for him - no 'acting up' is tolerated), and expects me to consult him before I leave (for a girls evening out, dinner with friends, to visit someone, shop, etc.)

Basically, we have a relationship built on trust, and my friends respect that - plus they see that I am happy, they know that S loves me & they are happy for us and our children.

As I've told some friends when they question my attitude of "I can't do XXX because S disapproves", I ask them why would I want to do something that would displease the person I love most (besides my children). They usually don't have an answer. And they know that S doesn't purposely do things that would upset me.

And on the few times that I have been spanked and told a friend about it, I said that I agreed to this lifestyle, it works for us and that I can't imagine living any other way because I'm free to be me at home. She was a little taken aback by the whole thing, but agreed that for all the time that we have known one another, she's never seen me happier - so if it works for me, she's happy for me. That's a friend. I don't really care what the rest of the world thinks and I am not going to let them get me down about something that works so well for my husband and me.

M-