Maybe when you tell him that you're not happy with the situation you're going about it the wrong way. I feel frustrated sometimes too and even though I would not and could not go back to how it used to be, I sometimes feel that I'm giving up to much of my personality. When this happens I try to talk to him about it as respectful as possible so it doesn't sound like nagging or complaining. Maybe the way you've been telling him sounds to him like he's doing a rotten job in dominating you and that things should go your way. You should probably start with giving him compliments and then say something like: "You know there is this little thing which is bothering me". That's the way I alway do it when I feel frustrated, I also wait for the right moment, like when we`re out enjoying a romantic dinner.

When a man makes the decision to take the lead in the relationship by taking his woman in hand, he first must "have himself in hand", as Glitter said. Male dominance and control are only as good the man who is doing the dominanting and controlling. The ever present danger in a Taken In Hand relationship is that the man who is dominating does so selfishly. If he lacks maturity and self control then perhaps it is time to reassess the relationship which is apparently what you are doing at this moment.

This does not mean all is lost. Many men as they grow older have the potential for growth. They discover that they feel much better about themselves as a men when they serve their family. A good leader serves the ones he is leading. He places their interests above his own. Your boyfriend may be one of these men who can, if given the opportunity, grow into this relationship. He may be acting like someone who has been given a new toy. He has this woman who wants to please him, he enjoys the newfound power he has in the relationship, he is thrilled by the taste of his own masculinity. It can be quite intoxicating.

Hopefully he will come to see that his new found sense of his dominance is empty if it remains only about him. As I said in another board recently, taking a woman in hand is meant to open her up, not shut her down. It is meant to take down walls, not build them up. It is meant to be erotic and to provide her with the feeling of being protected and deeply loved by the man she loves and trusts. She should be able bask in his dominance, control and leadership, not feel like running away.

Since you have taken the time to write about your concerns to Taken In Hand and perhaps feel that he does have the potential to grow into his new role, it is time for a very frank conversation. It might help him to read what you wrote. If my wife told me that she felt stifled by my leadership and felt that by my spanking her or my directives were causing her not be something other than her natural self, I would be horrified. If he does not want to acknowledge your concerns and have a conversation about what he can do to help you feel better about the relationship, then it may be time to move on. But I can't imagine any self respecting man when confronted by the woman he is supposed to love with the feelings you desribe not wanting to make changes.

If he can acknowledge there is a problem and wants to make changes that will be the best for you and the relationship then that is a very good sign. It does not diminish him as a dominant male to take your concerns into account and make the necessary changes. If anthing, it make him more of man. Amelia, I wish you the best.

Boy can I sympathise with what you're going through.

This is fast becoming my mantra, but you need to find a way to communicate your worries with him. Pre-Taken In Hand / DD-ish I used find exploding in a fit of temper and yelling that I had feelings too worked - after a fashion - it would provoke a row, which then let us discuss things, but I wouldn't recommend that as an approach to anyone. The suggestion someone else made of putting your concerns in writing (paper, e-mail, maybe not text message...) is a good one - I've been able to express a lot more of how I feel at times to my husband if I write it down for him to read. Possibly point him at various websites that show both how you want things to be, and equally as important how you don't want things to be.

I'm also wondering if you need to explore why he's excercising too much control - is it simply because he's finding it exciting, or that he actually thinks you want it to that extreme, or is he also experiencing a relief at being able to take control and not being, for want of a better way of putting it, under your thumb? If it's the last one, it's not going to be an easy discussion, but it's a possibility, at least in my experience.

The other option is, I suppose, that he's trying to make it fail to prove to you how wrong you were in wanting it and that you should have listened to him in the first place. But from what you've written I'm not sure that's the most likely reason.

But you really do need to talk. It's probably going to be hard for both of you. It may take some rows or unpleasantness at first to get you past the deadlock, but once you've started talking then hopefully you should be able to get to somewhere you both want to be.

Just for background, my husband and I tried something similar to this sort of relationship several years ago, before we had any names to call it. Most of what we had as a frame of reference came from the D/s part of the BDSM community. I think we both knew we didn't want it to be a game, but we'd also got the impression that it wasn't healthy to do it as anything but a game. We went far too far, far too fast, and ended up somewhere similar to where you are now. We both got burnt.

I backed off fast and became very withdrawn from him emotionally - it took a year or so before the worst of that wore off, and maybe another before we were both over it. After that, I put on a facade I've used at work when I need to seem in charge. And after that, we discovered things like DD and Taken In Hand on the web, and realised what we did actually want. Now we have a Taken in Hand type of relationship that, for the most part, works.

--

"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Hamlet, somewhere.

Being the leader in a Taken In Hand relationship is a very big job, and the man who takes this role, must be confident with a couple of things. One, he must be able to exert almost superhuman self restraint. And equally important, he must want to do with the purest love there is. If a man is presented with the dynamics of being leader, he has to question himself. He must be able to create a place that is safe and to have his love trust him with her welfare and happiness.

If this is anything but happy, then it has to be closed down until repairs or adjustments are made. I mean is it worth losing an entire relationship over when the communication is down? Probably not. But it's not worth destroying it either because one of you is no longer doing it from the place of love.

I remember asking Gary once what would happen if I just said NO to something. I was serious. I was asking would he force me. Would he leave me. What would happen? And he looked at me and asked me the same question. What would happen if I just refused to participate. And thinking about it, I got my answer. Nothing would happen. And I would be able to say No, if I felt strongly about it. However, the saying no paves the way for 'Why Not?'. And then you can work out the problems.

If Gary ever came from a place where he were not allowing me to be me, my radar would come up so fast I'd be looking for an exit. And no way would I be able to respond to him in my usual happy manner. And he would have to be a brick not to notice. So if you are showing signs of unhappiness and he is not wanting to talk about it, close it down. Make time for re-establish. For every bump along the way, the connection gets stronger with the resolution....Blush

I would suggest it is time for that very frank talk also. Send him an email and tell him some issues are concerning you deeply and you need his permission to speak freely without fear of repercussions. (This should not be necessary but unfortunately it seems you have wound up in a situation where you'd better ask that question).

When you have that permission show him your post and tell him, that it was great up to a certain point but now things have gone too far and you are less happy than before you brought the whole thing up.

Tell him the whole thing needs to be renegotiated and you need not to be walking on eggshells, but to flourish and grow with him in charge.

Please read the article here about how to tell if you are being abused. Do you recognize anything? I certainly think that if you are afraid to even express a dissenting opinion, that abuse is creeping in. Please bring this out in the open. It may not be what he intends, he may think he is doing it for you. There's only one way to find out.

Do not allow him to punish you for bringing up these concerns. If he does, you will know where you stand in the relationship, and you will know it needs to end.

"Pat"

Blush's reply is one of the best to Amelia. I don't know how long you've been in the relationship, Amelia, but you do sound as if something is lacking. Long about 1981 (!) Mrs Thorney felt I wasn't paying enough attention (this was back in our dating, and sleeping together sometimes, days) and really insisted on a long talk - with interruptions, it took several days. We came to a lot of understandings, including the old standard of a "safe word" meaning -hey, wait a minute, drop any game play, we really need to talk as equals.- We have used that safe word a few times over the years. (She said, "we need to promise each other that we won't lead each other into malaria-infested swamps", and "malaria-infested swamps" is the safe word.)

Yes, you do need to be able to communicate fully and freely. DO praise him for trying so hard to do what you, in fact, asked for (many men have fragile egos and need lots of praise.) DO tell him how much you have learned from what you have done together, and tell him some of the things you've enjoyed. But explain that it does need adjustment, and try to work out ways of adjusting. Don't expect to go too far too fast, to solve everything at once.

We find some difficult talks easier while cuddling, sometimes even naked together in bed. Sometimes one can feel a partner's reaction more easily than it can be expressed in words, and the physical contact can provide reassurance when the conversation is difficult. (Your milage may vary).

I -do- very much want to please Mrs. Thorney. One thing that pleases her is lots of attention and affection, often expressed by my sounding rather dominant or controlling (e.g. I like having my cock kissed at least several times a day; she likes having her bottom patted or played with very frequently during the day.)

But we deliberately do a great deal of her "topping from the bottom". "Would you please pick out some panties for me to wear today, Master?" "Could I please have a spanking, Master?" work much better for us than my having to take the initiative all the time. It lets me feel in charge and unthreatened, and lets her have enough control over pace and details to keep her feeling secure. It's much easier for me if she does help fine-tune how much dominant-type attention she gets.

Does her suggesting, or being very frank about what works or what isn't working, make me feel nagged? No doubt some of the things she says would sound that way if overheard by an outsider. Even she has expressed concern at times. My answer has been: "If you've started the day by kneeling down naked and kissing my feet while I play with your bottom, nothing that can happen later in the day can possibly dent my ego."

Thorney

Amelia's article is distressing. Obviously things are going in a direction she didn't intend. Playing with power is intoxicating; it sounds like fun, but please note, the root of that word is 'toxic'. This is what frequently happens when one puts themselves in the hands of someone who never really 'got it' in terms of understanding the dynamics of power exchange.

If she suspects she's created a monster, well, it appears she has. Providing he doesn't show up at her bedside with a hockey mask and a chain-saw, there is a way out. The alpha and omega of this dilemma is simple: this is a game for grown-ups. One needs to get a grip. No one has any business entering into a power exchange relationship unless he or she is strong enough to take responsibility for what he or she is doing. If the relationship is going where one doesn't want it to go, change it or end it. One can change it by expressing his or her position in specific terms - emphasizing the use of monosyllabics, and telling the truth. If that doesn't work, one is in the wrong relationship.

If Amelia's partner is actually cut out for this lifestyle, he will employ initiative and learn how to properly exercise his role. The fact that he hasn't done this on his own suggests this might not be where he belongs. Sensitivity, maturity, good judgement and an overriding concern for the well-being of the female component to the equation are requisite qualities for the man in this business.

If he's getting drunk on power, he shouldn't be drinking it. When one plays with power, there is an obvious physical danger - which might be part of the appeal. The emotional danger is no less real. Human beings will err, but in this arena there should be no tolerance for a pattern of irresponsible behavior.

For those of us who are programmed to appreciate a Taken in Hand relationship, the concept seems so sensible that we want to believe we've discovered a universal truth. The fact is that we are a minority. Expecting others - even people we may love - to perform a protean miracle and become just like us is foolish and selfish. It is possible to help a partner discover a previously unknown component of his or her sexual persona, but one cannot assume that one's partner has the necessary circuitry to make the change. Amelia's partner probably entered into the relationship wanting the person that Amelia presented herself to be when they first got involved. It's hardly fair to be pushing him into a new mold, and then condemning him when he doesn't fit. It will be just as wrong to continue in an unfulfilling relationship, pretending he is wanted for who he is when that's really not the case.

Those are my two cents. Call me a believer in tough love.

Mike

The suggestions that I have read so far all seem to be very good to consider. Hopefully one or more of them will work. But it is quite possible that none of them will work and your situation may worsen. If it does, it may indicate that your relationship has turned abusive.

Some men can't handle the power that you were willing to give your boyfriend. If, after you have tried the suggestions here, you learn that he is one who can't effectively manage that power, you may need to consider, as a last resort, separation, either temporary or permanent.

KrosRogue

Thanks for your comment, Frank. Thanks to everyone who's commented. It's brought home to me what the problem is and what it's not. It's not that he's a b*stard who doesn't care about my feelings, it's that I have failed to communicate with him. It's not that he's trying to stop me being me, it's that I've stopped me being me. It's not that he's controlling me too much, it's that he's controlling me by being short with me. OK maybe it's a bit of both, but I'm the one that's been encouraging him to control everything. It's not that he's trying to force me to be submissive, it's that I don't know how to react when accused of not being submissive enough. Help! Can you advise?

Has anyone else had this problem of being told off for not being submissive enough? I don't like it when he tells me I need to change my tone of voice to a more submissive, respectful tone. It makes me feel wretched and stifled and I don't know how to deal with it.

You know, there it is in a nutshell. This isn't really about you needing to protect your man, it is more of his failure to see you do it. In the beginning I for one would initially agree with anything to simply keep from showing my point of view, particularly if it differed from his. But he loved me and watched me and saw that I was compromising. And that is NOT part of the deal. This is about honesty and done with love. I wanted him to control, but not through his own needs, but to have me happy so his needs were met as a result. I think you have already lost the control you crave so much. You are not happy. That alone means you aren't getting what you want. It seems that now you have a stab at some illusion.

It really only takes 3 words to help here. And they are simply 'I'm Not Happy'. Not tearing him down, not you crying stop. Simply something to talk about. What has happened is that you found what does work and what doesn't. You can take those guidelines and use what works and throw away the rest. Guide him to watching you more closely. Have a set rule where you speak first, always. He will restrain himself until you have your say. If he cannot do this, rethink your position and if you want this with this particular man. You have lots to keep. But again, if this turns into resentment or you lose the relationship over it, the words of 'I'm not happy' seem a small price to pay. It's worse in your head than it is in happening. Love...Blush

Like you, Amelia, I wanted a man who would be in charge. I was single and when I found one who would, I encouraged him to make all the decisions, not just the big ones or have the final say, but all of them.

It was different in my case. I was looking for love and thought I'd find it through being controlled. I kept asking my new boyfriend for more control to get the sexual kick, but it never really worked that good. What I think went wrong was that there was not the love needed to make it work, and adding more control, more decisions, more micro management if you like, that was no substitute for what was missing.

When there's something missing, you try and find the missing element over and over. This doesn't speak to your situation, Amelia, but others might benefit from my story. Don't think control will do the job. You need love first, like another poster wrote.

Maybe think about what's missing in your relationship that you wanted to do this change?

Ros, your post was so helpful. I've got to tell him that I'm not submissive and want him not to use the "S" word any more. I don't like the way I am when I'm "submissive" and I need him to know that. Kessie's article "We're not all submissive" brought home to me that I'm not comfortable with the "submissive" label, and I need to tell my boyfriend what's in my heart, and what isn't working for me. Your post helped clarify this for me. Thanks!

Reading all the comments here has really helped get my situation into perspective. I have to say that I was surprised when I saw my post on the front page. It was just a post written in an off moment like we all have. It looks like it's given a bad impression of my boyfriend, but what everybody needs to know is- he's a good guy not an abuser. *I'm* the one who asked for this, and I *know* he wouldn't be doing the things he's doing if I'd been able to tell him it's not exactly what I had in mind. My post made it sound like I'm not happy but it was a bad moment that's all. I'm not saying there's no problem but it's not THAT bad! If I thought my boyfriend wouldn't be amenable to solving it I wouldn't stay with him, but I know different.

Thanks for updating us, Amelia - sounds like you're in the process of getting things sorted out and how you both want them.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
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"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Hamlet, somewhere.

Thanks to those that gave me so much advice. I didnt want to believe those that said I'd created a monster that couldn't handle the power. I tried the surrendered wife but all that happened was I got more depressed and he got more critical. If I said "I can't." he accused me of controlling with nagging and complaints. He said it was a power struggle and he wasnt going to change. If I wanted anything or wasnt OK with anything, he told me it was a "Laura Doyle situation". There was no give and take anymore. Everything was in his eyes a power struggle. When you love the guy and youre a smart and switched on successful independent woman, it's not easy to be honest with yourself that you're in an abusive relationship, especially when the abuse isn't physical.

A couple of the commenters thought I was saying my boyfriend hit me and when I read those comments I was sure they were wrong about my boyfriend being abusive. We never incorporated spanking or any physical "taking in hand". When your looking for abuse it's not always physical. Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can break your heart. Bones can heal; the heart is where the hurt is.

Yes, I was in an abusive relationship. Reading the comments here helped me see that. Saying "I'm not happy" like Blush said made him angry again. He's not like Gary. Trying to express my desires respectfully didnt change his response. He's not like Max. It was like opening the lid on control released an ugly and dangerous monster with a need to hurt me. It's like he was a wounded boy with his fingers in his ears and his eyes tightly closed, his shields up and guns ablazin'.

The posters that said some guys can't handle the power were right. People need to know that this isnt for everybody and not every guy can be given power without getting corrupted by it. If my experience can help any other women to see theyre in an abusive relationship some good will have come out of this.

When youre in an emotionally-abusive relationship you think it's your fault. You dont see it as abusive because there's no hitting or kicking or shoving or bruises. The bruises and cuts are all inside.

So I'm single again. Once bitten twice shy? No, I guess not. I'm not ready for another relationship yet but when I am you might find my ad in the personals department of this site.

Reading this topic, a little late in the day, the impression I get is of someone forcing it when he isn't really hard wired to take someone in hand. Thus it becomes a pretence and he takes it too far and becomes abusive, where instead with caring dominant men I have found the desire to keep their submissive partner happy as important as getting their own way.

For me it mustn't be put on. I have always been submissive and prefer men who have never had to learn or change but from the word go simply related naturally dominant with women.