A reality check for critics

To: Anonymous Taken In Hand Reader

I gather you believe the following ideas, based on your posts; I've paraphrased them here, but I think I've captured the gist. Let me suggest you do some ‘reality checks’ on these ideas:

(1.) Decent men are not willing to get ‘rough’ with women – only abusers do that; if a man pushes you, then he's likely to beat you up badly sometime.

Sorry, but that's a myth along the same lines as ‘a smart, competent, independent and assertive woman would never, ever want a man to dominate her, or spank her, or ravish her.’ It also reminds me of the fallacious ‘slippery slope’ arguments used in the ‘war on drugs’ – which imply that if someone starts partakes of a natural, non-addictive herbal intoxicant like cannabis, then they're hell-bound to wind up as heroin junkies or amphetamine freaks. Or that someone who enjoys a daily glass of wine or beer is bound to escalate to imbibing quarts of vodka and whiskey, and dying in the gutter, soaked with booze. It's just not true, any of it.

But websites against ‘domestic violence’ perpetuate that lie, along with many others, in their lists of ‘warning signs’ to look for in ‘potential abusers.’ Many of those ‘warning signs’ sound like a shopping list of features that women seeking a dominant man would look for. That's because there's often a hidden feminist agenda at those sites, one that opposes male dominance in intimate relationships, no matter how consensual. They tell lies about the terrible dangers of a little harmless shoving, for the same reason that the ‘war on drugs’ folks tell lies about the terrible ‘dangers’ of a little harmless cannabis: because their underlying agenda is all about an ideology, not about a realistic assessment of actual dangers. Most men who shove or even slap women don't escalate into punching them senseless. If that's true in most cases, then realize how much more true it would be in a relationship where there is a consensual agreement as to the man's right to engage in some harmless bullying, and frank discussion about the dangers of going too far, where the lines are drawn, etc.

I will add that I find it quite hilarious that so many people seem to think that a little swat or a push is bound to escalate into a maddened, bone-crunching rampage on the man's part. I studied karate for a few years, during which time I lived with my boyfriend, who was a black belt. We had a great time practicing karate techniques, or putting on the pads and sparring. He was very experienced, so he knew exactly when and how to pull a blow; I trusted him in that regard much more than I would trust someone who was not a martial artist. We spent probably ten or more hours a week hitting each other; and as often as not, it ended up in the bedroom. He was not quite the man I've been looking for, but that's beside the point. The point is, a little well-controlled physical combat does not have to be ‘dangerous’ – nor does a man have to be an ‘abuser’ to enjoy doing that.

(2.) I could be quite happy with a ‘dominant’ man who did not get physically rough with me; maybe just a little spanking and/or BDSM, or just agreeing that he's the ‘head of the household’ and that would be enough to satisfy me.

You don't know me at all, or you would not even hazard such a guess. I am not really into spanking, nor BDSM, nor the ‘head of the household’ thing; although I am willing to explore some aspects of those three things if I can find the right man to love and dominate me. What I mean by that is precisely that he is willing to conquer me: to get a little bit rough with me, use his strength to physically defeat me, and intimidate me with the realization of what he could do to me if he chose to. That is the big erotic thrill for me, and always has been. The other stuff – spanking, whips and chains, BDSM protocol and rituals, servitude, ‘head of the household’ and etc. – is stuff that I used to snicker at and regard as vaguely ridiculous. Why? Because it seemed to me totally irrelevant to the business of a man actually dominating a woman, and the erotic thrill that I get from that. You are therefore being unintentionally absurd when you suggest that I could just drop that one little thing from my shopping list for a dominant man – because that's the main thing on the list, and the one thing that is absolutely necessary if I am to have any sort of hot erotic relationship. It's not an option; it's an absolute.

(3.) I am a naive romantic, in danger of getting trapped in an abusive relationship if I don't try and change this essential feature of my sexuality.

I've already made it quite clear that I have no intention of being seriously injured, and that I would leave any relationship where that seemed like a real possibility. (And I've done that once before, by the way.) The sort of domination that I enjoy from a man obviously requires a large amount of trust, as I noted in the article. It also would entail some serious conversations about how to avoid getting into a danger zone, and etc. Nothing in life is risk-free, including dominant men. But I think that a man who is clear on his dominance and who has ways of channeling that and expressing it safely is actually much less dangerous than a man for whom there is lots of pent-up rage that he has suppressed under cover of ‘niceness.’

(4.) I am a naïve romantic, oblivious to the real necessities of life such as cooking, laundry, paying bills, etc.

I'm well aware of all that, thanks; been doing it for years. I've lived for several years now with a man who's been my best friend for over two decades, since we were in college. (We're sort of like ‘Will and Grace,’ except that we're both straight.) I understand that dealing with daily reality and getting along with someone over the years requires compromises and adjustments, etc. So what? How is that in any way relevant to what I need in a specifically romantic relationship? That's what I'm talking about in my quest for a dominant man – what my erotic and romantic needs are. I take it for granted that a lot of the other stuff will be there as well; but I see no reason why there should be any contradiction between doing the laundry and seeing that my erotic needs and desires are met. Why are you implying those aspects of a relationship would be incompatible?

(5.) Somehow, I expect the man to just start dominating and intimidating me ‘from the get go.’

No, I've already said in other posts that this is something that a man needs to learn how to test for; but that's true of any sort of dominant/submissive activities, or even sexual desire in general. This is definitely a consensual relationship I'm talking about here; but there are various ways of interpreting ‘consent.’ There are some mild ways to start out doing this, that I've mentioned before: arm-wrestling, or playful wrestling on the bed, or the man pinning her arms behind her as he's kissing her, etc. It's also possible to talk about it, but I don't really like to do too much of that, especially to start with. I don't want a man to hand me a questionnaire as to what sorts of activities I enjoy and don't enjoy. I want him to do some curious exploring, and find my magic buttons for submission. If a man pushed me into a wall on our second date, I'd be concerned; but if he didn't do that after a dozen dates, I'd be bored.

Finally, regarding your comment about ‘almost perfect, but not quite’ – I'd be overjoyed to find a man who was ‘almost perfect.’ However, my need for a dominant man who enjoys conquering me physically is not just the icing on the cake – it is the cake. And yes, there is a whole list of other rare qualities that are absolute necessities in my book, as well. (In addition to dominant, he needs to be intelligent, pagan, witty, emotional, physically strong, and attractive to my eyes.) And as I've said elsewhere, I'm not willing to ‘settle’ for anything less than the essentials. I can be quite happy alone, so if I don't happen to find what I need in a man, then I would prefer to remain single. But I don't see any particular reason why I shouldn't be able to find what I'm looking for, so that's what I plan to do in the meantime. Even if I don't happen to find my man, it will do the world some good to hear about the desire that many women have for strong, powerful, masculine, dominant men.

DeeMarie

Take the Taken In Hand tour


Have you seen the following articles?
When rape is a gift
I want it all, and I want it now!
Is Taken In Hand a moral matter?
The difference between dominant and domineering
Dealing with a man who doesn't do as he's told
In praise of Fascinating Womanhood
The alpha male and masculine power
Ownership as bonding
Why would a women want to be spanked?
Who needs forbidden fruit when you have this?

Checked

Well, Dee Marie, if that's what you say you want, go look for him. But..I do not have documentary proof before me that men who begin with a shove and a slap many times do wind up going out of control and beating a woman dangerously. However I've heard it often enough from women who really were abused. And I'd love for you to produce some sort of evidence that this is a myth and a feminist lie.

My concern is that whether it is the first, second or tenth date, if the guy pushes you up against the wall without your stated consent to it, then you are indeed in the presence of a man who is on his way to abusing you. I've talked to women who were abused and the physical stuff didn't even start until after they were married. So for a guy to do something like that, pin you against a wall or shove you so early in the relationship, is certainly a red flag.

I'll be 50 next month. In my recollection, only a couple of men have ever treated me that way. One was a clumsy, horny little twelve year old boy who got me alone in his house and started to kiss me, and then shoved me against the wall, banging my head in the process, when I resisted. Ugh. I'm sure he's still around somewhere. You are welcome to him.

Then there was the man who grabbed me in a subway station. He was bent on rape. So was the guy in Central Park who did the same. You're definitely welcome to all of them. My experience: men who override a woman this way are out for themselves and dangerous.

Now, if arm wrestling turns you on, great, but realize that a lot of men will see no logical progression between beating you at arm wrestling and shoving you up against a wall.

Nobody lives adult life without being cognizant of the boring stuff but what I am saying is you are putting such emphasis on the sizzle and excitement that you sound like you are forgetting that this guy is also going to have to be the one who mops up when you have the flu and vomit. There are guys who can be the sexy flash in the pan, but can they stick it out for a long haul?

I doubt it. Since you are happy being alone, I suggest you get used to it. You're safer that way, anyhow, than following your predilection for danger. And if a guy is really bigger and stronger than you and can physically dominate, just what makes you think you can escape from him if he does become an abuser?

I'm still not understanding what you want

Are you talking about a man, who you are just getting to know, a dozen dates or so, shoving you into a wall because he is angry with you? Or swats at you because you pissed him off?

Or are you talking about rough sex? Foreplay? And you are being 'naughty?' Slammed against the wall in a sexy way? "You'll do what I say, Cara mia," type stuff?

Physically wrestling is fun. It is play. It doesn't involved anger.

How someone handles anger is very important. I'd be very worried if they handled anger by getting physically aggressive.

You want a man to physically dominate you, early in the relationship, but you don't really want to talk about it?

Men that know they like things rough, like doms in BDSM, are very aware of the need for consent, clear consent. Otherwise, ugly legal measures can be brought against them.

apples and oranges...

I've been reading this with some vested interest. In my corner, I have both..love with violence and trauma. And in the other corner...I have love with dominance and tenderness. Which is the right one for me? Well, I for one did not do well with the pushing, shoving and slamming to the floor and walls. I didn't like the violent bloody sodomy nor the choking and other forms of acts, done under the umbrella of 'I love you so I can'.

That was nothing I liked nor wanted.

Yet here I am, recovered..patched with therapy and in an intense relationship with someone who does dominate me. Who spanks me, who walks toward me until I am up against a wall and he towers over me and speaks quietly until I am a quivering mass of submission. He only has to lower his voice an octave and my attention is had, my eyes alert and my submission properly in place.

Did he have to shove me, or slap at me. No, he never. Yet he still dominates me. He also loves me and took the time to find out what my needs are. What happened to me to make me who I am and who I was.

Some women like to play 'rough'. That doesn't make the man an abuser. He is participating in a mutual sport. If he can draw the line of restraint, then he is only engaging. The same if someone drinks or smokes pot. If they are an addictive personality, they very well might make it to alcoholic or drug abuse. Or they can smoke or drink for years in moderation and be just fine.

To each their own. I for one do not like rough play, in any way shape or form. I do not like raised voices nor unexpected moves.

I know that love seems to be a kind of dirty word to some, and it doesn't seem to play so much in the relationships that others want. But if a partner who respects you, loves you enough to know what you want or need, then it's apples and oranges. What's good for me is good for you. As long as it's what you want....Blush

Apples and Oranges

I completely agree, Blush! I have been married for close to 20 years, and within 5 minutes of meeting the man I would later marry he had a hold on me. I was acting like a shrew and he told me if it continued he'd turn me over his knee. I couldn't believe it, but I believed HIM! Once we started dating I quivered at his strength...quiet strength, never bullying, but all ablout me and US...what was best for US as a couple, we came first, I came first. And when I acted like a shrew he told me off, backed me against a wall, held my hands behind my back while he kissed me, and yes, made good on his threat once or twice and tanned my hide. I never consented, we never had agreements about "punishable offences"; he threatened, I didn't take him at his word, and I paid! I couldn't imagine calling the police..."HI, yes, um (sniff!), he, um, SPANKED ME! WAHHHHH!" The rolling of the policmans eyes would be never-ending, given the true domestic abuse they witness on a dialy basis. So, I get you, DeeMarie, and Blush, too! I have had "wannabe" relationships like this in the past, where the guy wants to be, and probally is, dominant, but was scared off by MY STRENGTH. As my man told me once, "You're hell on wheels, lady! Lucky for all of us I'm alot tougher than you and I can handle you when and IF I have to!" It's comforting, as Blush can attest to!

I'm glad I never ran into him.

You met a guy who threatened to spank you within 5 minutes of meeting you? And you were thrilled? I'm glad I never ran into him.

Backing into walls

Well, I have been threatened with spanking very early on in a relationship, it was a little longer than five minutes, probably more like ten, but although it was said in a jocular manner the man who said it realised from the way I responded that I liked the idea (his previous girlfriend had also been turned on by spanking, so he recognised the signs). Presumably the man in the above comment could also tell that she liked the idea, or he wouldn't have done it, or would he?

One thing I do find amazing is how many women there are who are apparently turned on by being backed into walls. I've never had a thing about walls at all, being backed into one wouldn't do anything for me at all, but a lot of women seem to love it. Wall-backing as a means of erotic arousal is evidently a much more common thing than I would ever have suspected.

Re: Backing into walls

Interesting that I have been into spanking all my life but I have never once been threatened with a spanking by any man who has dated me, at least not before he was told I was into it. How in the world did this guy figure it out from your behavior in only ten minutes? And how were you provoking him so that the idea you needed one came to mind?

Being backed against a wall while being kissed can be sexy, but not when it's violent and rough the way Dee describes it. It's not the feeling of being trapped that is a turn on. I just like the feeling that something is behind me..supported maybe. That way I know that if he gave me a very passionate kiss I wouldn't fall over.

But rough shoving up against a wall and being trapped there? No thanks.

How did he figure it out?

Well, it was twenty-six years ago, so the details are not entirely clear in my mind, but I think he was kissing me, and I'd said something a bit provocative, and he said I needed a good spanking, whereupon I started kissing him harder, isntantly turned-on, and a knowing grin came over his face and he said "Oh, you like the idea of that, don't you?" and we took it from there.

On looking around our house, I realise that even if I did fancy being backed into a wall, there isn't actually one that's suitable for being backed into, all our walls are full of bookshelves, cupboards, furniture etc, there isn't really one that's available, so it's just as well I'm not into the wall thing. If I got backed into the booskehlves, for instance, I'd start worrying about the books getting messed up, out of order etc, and that would somewhat spoil the mood anyway.

I personally dislike the feel

I personally dislike the feeling of being trapped, and I'm a little claustrophobic, so I don't like being backed into walls... although he has on occassion done it playfully... stomping toward me with a big self-assured smile on his face. I don't find the experience to be entirely unpleasant as long as he doesn't keep me there too long. Usually it's just long enough to take a kiss and he lets me go.

I can definitely see where it could be a turn on for some women, even if it is a little rough. If I know I can trust you and I'm safe with you, even though you've just presented this show of force I'll be okay. I wouldn't want to plummet 400 feet at 80 miles per hour in my car, but on a roller coaster I can enjoy it because I know it's safe. Sure, things can happen, but the chances are miniscule. The ride has been in operation for years, I've ridden it before, and I've always come out unscathed. I view a show of force like this in the same way. Sure, if he gets a little rough you may bump your head. Sure there is the potential that he may have over night turned into an abusive asshole, but probably not. Most likely it's going to be just like every time. He's going to kiss me sloppier than I like and pretend to be offended when I wipe my mouth on his shirt complaining about his cooties, but when all is said and done, all we have done is added a bit of spice to our day.

RE: CHECKED

I agree 100% with everything posted in "checked". If a man shoves or slaps me, I consider that abuse. If my husband shoved or slapped me, I would not leave him the first time it happened, but I would make it very clear that I did not like being treated that way and found it insulting. I would also be very inclined to slap him right back. I don't see anything tender, loving and caring about being slapped and shoved. I think being "Taken in Hand" has a tender philsophy behind it where men must treat women with utmost respect, kindness, and protection. I could NEVER NEVER NEVER respect a man that slapped and shoved me. Never. Women are precious jewels. You are a precious jewel, so don't let a man treat you as though you were a mere stone to be kicked about. The writer of Checked said she is 50 years old, listen to a woman with years of experience. I am approaching 40 myself and have traveled quite a bit internationally in my life so I have some knowledge and experience as well. Shoving and slapping are not the same as being tenderly "taken in hand". Please think about this.

DeeMarie's warning about warning signs

Many of those ‘warning signs’ sound like a shopping list of features that women seeking a dominant man would look for.

LMAO! Too true.

And this:

What I mean by that is precisely that he is willing to conquer me: to get a little bit rough with me, use his strength to physically defeat me, and intimidate me with the realization of what he could do to me if he chose to.

Freaking MEOW!

However, my need for a dominant man who enjoys conquering me physically is not just the icing on the cake – it is the cake.

Yes!

Hehe. Sorry to go all fangirl on you, but this whole article is just kickass!

Some want more than gentle sweet tenderness

LMAO re the last posted anonymous post.

women are precious jewels

If I can't be a precious jewel while being shoved and slapped around. No thanks. I don't want it. I'm not as fragile as I look.

Shoving and slapping are not the same as being tenderly "taken in hand". Please think about this.

Really? Okay, Mom. There seem to be a lot of people on this site who don't want to be "tenderly" taken in hand. The roughness is sort of the point for a lot of us.

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