A somewhat whimsical thought just struck me after reading this article (blame the painkillers) – when a strong woman wishes to be taken in hand, it almost takes on the air of quests in the chivalric romances. In short:

Strong, desirable woman says to knight of her choice: You can have me, I will submit to you, but only if you prove that you're worthy of it by proving your strength and your courage. Knight wanders off to slay dragons, conquer evil lords, see the good in spiteful & haggard crones, and generally does what everyone else has deemed impossible. All these obstacles could very easily be allegorical references to her own strength being "bested" by someone strong enough to not be scared by her.

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"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Hamlet, somewhere.

In my experience, living with a very strong willed woman who is very capable of taking care of herself, full of pep, very witty and has a tremendous amount of respect and trust in me as I do for her, Taken in Hand is great for us. I feel that dominant and submissive are independent from strong and weak.
GT has told me countless times since giving unconditional consent how extremely sexy it is when she gets the look. She loves the secure feeling and the protected feeling that comes with being taken in hand.
Surrounding GT and Taken In Hand is a true passion of mine. Submission is taken or earned if you will. Once you have earned your lady's trust, submission is there to be taken. It is also my feeling that it takes a very strong women to submit and let go of what she has had control of.
I would find it hard to believe that a strong willed women would try to find comfort and connection with a lesser-willed man. Taken in Hand seems to be geared around dominance and submission along with a host of other dynamics, and has improved our already good relationship.

Respectfully, Race

When a woman submits, there is a rush to reassure herself and everyone else that in fact she is a strong willed and independent minded person. The words, "The lady doth protest too much," spring to mind.

But when a man wishes to submit, it is assumed he is lesser-willed and weak. Hm. Why does it "take a strong woman to submit" but it doesn't "take a strong man to submit?"

Is there not an apologia going on here for women who submit? Some are strong, but how absurd to assume that is universally true. I have met women who identify as submissive and they are not strong nor independent minded. They are weak-willed, foolish, and prey to anything in pants that calls himself a Dominant. They are not representative of the whole, but by the same token, it is ridiculous to laud submissive women in general as being "strong willed."

Even the more absurd to turn around and assume that a man who wants to subsume his superior strength to a woman's dominance must NOT be strong.

I wonder, Eric, if a certain amount of molding is inevitable in relationship between one who is dominant and another who is dominated, even if the domination is slight.

You may not wish intend to mold her and you might not want to bring her to submission, but your own natural dominance brings about the molding and submission nonetheless.

Of course it is a matter of degrees but I suspect that a strong component of a desire to submit is a desire for the molding that submission brings about.

But when a man wishes to submit, it is assumed he is lesser-willed and weak. Hm. Why does it "take a strong woman to submit" but it doesn't "take a strong man to submit?"

A strong man could not use his full strength with a too-weak woman. He would have to hold back in order to avoid crushing her (metaphorically and/or literally).

So, the point is, if a woman wants to submit to a strong man, she must be strong in her own right in order to meet his strength. Thus, the best hope for a taken in hand relationship might be between a man and woman who are nearly matched in strength.

I wonder if truly strong people would be happy with weak people. I think that if you are a strong person, male or female, then you would find a weak person, a door mat, pretty boring. What kind of true give and take can you have with a weak person?

To be happy I need someone who matches my strength. If my husband was weak I would not respect him. Weakness of character makes me feel disgust actually. I have no patience or time for weakness. I do submit to him, but my submission has nothing to do with weakness. I have learned that I can be strong and submissive at the same time and that is what my husband wants.

Strength is what makes the whole relationship sexy. We are both strong people. Neither of us would be happy married to a weak person. I am not sure that I agree that it takes a strong woman to submit, but I think it is definitely more interesting for the man when the woman submitting to him is strong! My strong man makes life more interesting to me too!

Take care all,
Tevemer

Having followed this discussion for some time, I must say I still haven't got a clue what the difference is between being submissive or being brought to submission, I think the distinction is too subtle for me. I mean, I can't really see how you can be brought to submission if you are not willing to submit, and if you are willing to sbumit, then you are submissive, aren't you?

I would just like to remark though that I am submissive (mostly) to my husband, not because I am weak or a doormat or anything, but because I find it very, very sexy (and, yes, kinky too).

LouiseC wrote, in part:

... I still haven't got a clue what the difference is between being submissive or being brought to submission, ... I mean, I can't really see how you can be brought to submission if you are not willing to submit, and if you are willing to submit, then you are submissive, aren't you?

Many of the women who write here initiated the process with their men and had to bring him around to the idea of accepting her submission. ("I want you to be the HoH in our relationship and take me in hand.") These women were not brought to submission.

Being brought to submission means that the person who submits is *not* the one who initiates the process. ("From now on, I'm going to be the HoH and I am taking you in hand.")

Someone who is brought to submission might not have been submissive to start with or might not have been aware of her inner submissiveness. He may have awakened something within her or helped to create something within her.

But there is yet another kind of woman who is submissive and knows she is submissive but will only submit submit to the strongest of men. She does not seek to submit. She submits if and when he uses sufficient strength to win her over.

This woman is submissive but must be brought to submission. She will not go there on her own.

But there is yet another kind of woman who is submissive and knows she is submissive but will only submit submit to the strongest of men. She does not seek to submit. She submits if and when he uses sufficient strength to win her over.

This is the kind of woman I identify with. I think/believe that to get me to a point of being won over by a man like this, I would have to be totally exhausted from his stength. His physical strength. I am a fighter...even if I think in the slightest way that I am wrong...I will keep fighting, and will only fight until I am overpowered...physically. This has never happened for me. I will say though, that if I could safely and trustingly bring out a man's full strength is also very powerful for me. Almost like giving him a gift...letting him bring himself to get that out. Be who he is.(Not abusive behavior)I have not found this kind of man and I don't think anyone like this is out there. I have just about given up. Most men are scared of me. I am not only very strong minded but am physically strong from being so independent. I find that I really don't need to bother with men unless they can prove any contribution can come from them. Like dominance and confidence if their mind and abilities....but also be loving and protective of me as well. The return and combination would be explosive growth for both of us...but is there really such men out there, and how do you find them safely?

This was very interesting to read. It reminded me a lot of myself even though I don`t think I`m as strong as you are. To me it was kind of like that too, my husband had to show me first that he`s really stronger then me, physically and mentally. But that doesn`t mean that I`m less intelligent. I wouldn`t just give my submission without him being willing to fight for it. We`ve been into this life style for years now and I don`t put up as much of a fight anymore, because pleasing him is what I really want to do. But I know that if I would fight against it, he would be strong enough to bend my will and that gives me a very good and secure feeling.