Natali, I feel the bind you're in, and I really feel your excitement at being with your new guy.

First of all, read this Taken in Hand article. Among other things, it's about the deeply serious risks than men face when they use their physical power over a woman. The truth is, at this stage in your relationship, your man would be foolish to do so even if you begged him explicitly.

I think you do him an injustice when you accuse him of not seeming to care. The nice guys make the best partners, mates and husbands, but they're also the most difficult to convince to take the kind of control you want, even if it would suit them well. They have to be convinced that what you're asking won't truly hurt you in the long run, and they're too conscientious to just take your word for it.

So you have to talk. Patiently, repeatedly, and at length. If you can't ask for what you really want, you have to at least tell him that. And let him continue to discover. When he's ready to look at them, point him to resources, articles, and stories that resonate with you. Write a page a day in a diary about your desires, then leave it open in an obvious place.

If you're saving yourself for the man who doesn't have to "figure it out," you may be waiting a very long time. I have difficulty imagining a man with a backbone who wouldn't love being the HoH of a Taken In Hand woman, but a few probably exist. Most of the rest won't have thought about Taken In Hand for years the way that you have, and need time to catch up. And you must understand that what you asking requires him to trust you as much as he has ever trusted anybody in his life. In terms of what he risks, it's comparable to the marriage promise.

Good luck!

If he were naturally Taken In Hand, then he would be completely Taken In Hand with you now, but ONLY IF all else were equal.

But all else is not equal. He has grown up in an environment in which he is told, constantly, that it is good to be the opposite of Taken In Hand.

So, if he is naturally Taken In Hand, and naturally wants to be good, who knows how many layers of contradictory bullshit are covering his natural tendencies.

He has told me that he just "doesn't care" about most things, but clearly he cares about me bossing him around, and hasn't allowed me to do so (I'm pretty bossy, despite wanting to be taken in hand by a strong man) but he doesn't seem to care about anything else. So maybe he's just not motivated to take me in hand.

Since he hasn’t allowed you to boss him around, he is clearly motivated to take you in hand. This is the most important point for you to understand.

If he were not naturally Taken In Hand, then he would not be standing up to you.

Which part of taking you in hand would require him to “care about most things”?

I remember finding it funny when Louise was talking about how her leaving some chocolate drink mix out on the counter was an issue. I would have never noticed anything like that.

He “just doesn’t care about most things”, but he does care about some things. And those will bubble up to the surface, once he no longer subconsciously feels that insisting on them would be oppressive or petty.

Once he starts to take you in hand actively, he will focus on the things that he does care about. And that is what you want anyway, right?

At that time, if there is something that isn’t important to him, but is something that you want him to focus on and enforce, tell him.

I need to know that *he* wants this. If he did it only for my sake, I would feel so silly.

What you actually need to know is that he wants to be in control and that he wants you to feel happy, safe and secure.

As long as this is the context, you should never feel silly.

If you still feel silly, then you need to start becoming comfortable with the idea that you belong to him.

What you want is for him to be in charge and to act in a way that is good for you and for your relationship.

As long as this is true, why should it matter that, without your input, it would never have occurred to him to, for example, spank you if your panties drawer were not arranged by color and texture?

If you were my woman, and you suggested something like that, I might accommodate you. Or I might do the opposite, and spank you if you didn’t relax and try to be a bit messy.

Once he gets into this mode, you will not always get what you want, but rather what he thinks that you need.

I know I could just guide him to the articles on this site, but he's told me to hold off on that for a little while to see if he can figure me out by himself.

Yeah, right, and while he is doing that, he can make a list of all of the other things that he doesn’t know that he doesn’t know.

In the olden days, boys were taught parts and pieces of this by their fathers and other men, and they could learn much of the rest through direct observation.

But that isn’t possible today. So how exactly do you and he think that he will get this information, and thus be able to develop the necessary understanding?

This site is the best resource that he will find. So he should stop wasting time and start reading.

You can't: he is either like it or not - in my opinion men who see themselves as taken in hand kinda guys do not need prompting. My husband led from day 1.

Once he becomes comfortable with the Taken In Hand nature that is within him, you may need to explain how being forced makes you feel.

Someone who did not care about you would have no uncertainties about forcing you. But, because he does care about you and wants to protect you, and since he does not know how this would feel to you, from personal experience, this is where he is most likely to be cautious.

The problem is not that he lacks the necessary masculinity, but rather that he is not yet able to see things through your eyes. So, his only source of information may be to ask himself how he would feel if someone treated him in this way.

The problem is that men and women tend to have needs and responses that are totally opposite, in this respect. And don’t forget that it is unlikely that anyone has talked to him about this as he was growing up, and it is certainly now impossible to absorb this information from the world at large.

So, along with your love and consent, you need to give him your trust and talk openly and honestly with him.

Re: Time and Trust

Among other things, it's about the deeply serious risks than men face when they use their physical power over a woman.

That is absolutely correct! In the US, for example, the police are required to arrest a boyfriend or husband if the woman merely claims that she somehow “feels threatened”.

Nevertheless, from your writing, it is obvious that you are unlike many other women, in a very positive way. Your boyfriend has experienced this directly, so I would expect him to be willing to try with you what he would never try with anyone else.

Re: Mr. Nice Guy

Should you relinquish all control over your life to him now? Of course not!

Nevertheless, it is perfectly fine to start developing a Taken In Hand relationship now, in ways that are appropriate to a newly dating couple.

And, since you are a young woman who has had the character and wisdom to remain a virgin (you really are a treasure!), I am certain that you will have no problem whatsoever in determining what is appropriate now, and what should wait until engagement or marriage.

Re: you can't he is either like i

… in my opinion men who see themselves as taken in hand kinda guys …

The key phrase here is “who see themselves as”.

It can be hard to see yourself as you are, when your inclinations are in conflict with an incessant barrage of incorrect messages about how you should be.

Not all men are affected to the same extent. And don’t assume that being affected less is necessarily a good thing. Maybe their Taken In Hand nature is so strong that it overrides everything else. Maybe they had different experiences growing up. Maybe they lack empathy. Maybe they are just dense.

Re: The Editor’s comments

I agree with you. I should have explained that better.

My thoughts were that once he gets a generic understanding of what is involved and what she may need, he will be better equipped to “figure her specifics out by himself”.

Also, his taking the step of becoming more knowledgeable would allow her to give him the time that he needs, by reassuring her that it is not the case that “maybe he's just not motivated to take me in hand”.

I missed that post, thank you. I will be sure to have him read it along with the others.

I certainly wouldn't expect him to spank me at this stage. In fact, as much as I need to know he would do it if he wanted, I quite dread the idea and I expect I always will, unless it was playful. I wouldn't purposedly upset him to get him to spank me, and he is so laid back (this is what I meant to say when I mentioned he doesn't care about most things) that I don't expect he would find reason to do it very soon or very often. I would do my very best to avoid that from happening. But I need to know that he wouldn't hesitate to do it, either because he felt I deserved it or simply to "take it out" on me.

I don't really do him an injustice, because when we were talking about leadership, dominance and such things in the context of a relationship, he used those very words to describe himself. But he meant (I think) that he's just really laid back about most things.

--Natali

Thank you for your encouraging words. As I said above, I've printed out a selection of articles for him to read and he is very willing.

--Natali

Personally, I am all in favour of talking about things. You cannot always expect a man to know by instinct what it is that you. If I had waited for my husband to figure out that I wanted a Taken In Hand relationship, I would still be waiting. I needed to discuss things with him. He is not a mind reader and neither am I.

However, I do think it is a bit soon to be discussing Taken In Hand with someone you have only known for a month. I think you should give yourslef a bit longer to get to know him.

If you get to know him better, you might have an inkling of whether he is likely to be a Taken In Hand type or not. My husband for instance is naturally quite bossy about some things, and this gave me an indication, also he has never had any trouble being sexually assertive, since he knows I like this. You may after a while have some idea of whether he is likely to be responsive to Taken In Hand.

Getting him to read this site will not necessarily be the best thing to do. Men don't always care for reading about relationships (my husband doesn't like it at all.) Talking to him would probably be better.

Louise

Natali, I think you're well within your rights. It took me over 18 months to fully realise that my girl wants to be Taken In Hand. She obviously recognised early on that I have HOH traits, but she's always been very sparse on clues. I'm glad she didn't just explain it to me, though. I'd feel as if I were taking orders if I took charge on her request. In my opinion, that would have violated the dynamic.

My advice is to be patient, whilst giving him subtle clues. Naturally there will be mixed signals, but let him know that you need him to figure you out. Don't ruin it for him by making it too easy. I respect the fact that the sitting down and explaining approach works for some people, but you seem to have similar feelings as I do about the man taking the initiative. In my opinion, you should never compromise your values.

Joris

The best advice I can give you is to be patient! Very patient!

There are people who are inclined towards this relationship from a young age like you and me. Then there are people who could be inclined towards this if they were put in the right situation and with the right person. Your beau sounds like the latter type.

You've only dated him for a month. It took me around 2 years to have my boyfriend now husband become somewhat taken in hand. I would say that we are now fully taken in hand.

I've never asked my dear husband for a taken in hand relationship but in many ways we have one. I think it's better when it comes about naturally rather than forced.

The key is to encourage taken in hand gently but not in any obvious way. At least that's what I did.

Also realize that a man's protective instincts tend to develop the longer you spend with him and the longer you have been together. My husband is much more in control now than he was when we were dating. If you are still dating this guy in a year he will take charge more than he did in the first few months. If you give him several more years and respond positively to his control, he will take control even more.

The key is to have realistic ideas about what you will and won't accomplish with someone who isn't desiring a taken in hand relationship on their own. If you want someone controlling you heavily you probably won't get that from this guy. If you want a basic HOH type of relationship that's definitely within your grasp.

Although my husband could be a bit more controlling for my preferences, he's come a long way. Here are some of the things he does on his own:

One day I told him that I was going to do something he wouldn't allow. He grabbed me, pulled me close and looked me in the face then he sternly said, "No." while simultaneously swatting me two or three times on my butt. It only stung a little but it got my attention and I ended up obeying him. He's done that several times since.

He's also used this phrase when he's forbidding me from doing something, "I don't need to give you an explanation; if I tell you not to do something. I am your husband and you are going to listen to me."

So I would say that my attempts to encourage a taken in hand relationship were pretty successful.

Here are a few of the things I did that seemed to work:

1. Tell him he is strong, makes you feel safe, you love how he's masculine etc.

2. Be feminine. Ask for his approval on outfits. (Not obnoxiously like, "Do I look fat in this?" more like "Do you like this on me or the other outfit?" When he gives his opinion don't debate and just change into the outfit he chooses.)

3. Be modest around other men. Give him all of your attention when they are around and don't flirt. Don't dress to show off your body to everyone unless he enjoys that kind of thing. Mention to him that you are keeping your body for his eyes only.

4. When you are married and having sex with him let him know that your body is his. Don't play mind games and don't withhold sex as punishment; give him sexual access whenever he desires willingly and happily.

5. When your relationship becomes more serious begin asking him questions about your plans. Ask permission for some things like going out with girl friends, coming home late etc.

Everyone's relationship dynamics are different so what worked for me might not for you but I hope I at least gave you some ideas and some encouragement.

There is a lot of good advice in here, as always. One thing I haven't seen specifically addressed is the old point about him overcoming his upbringing and culture: suddenly taking hold of a woman you've been dating for a month and whacking her isn't "standard" behavior.

You need to send him the signals - "positive reinforcement". When he does something that fits the bill, make sure he knows - not gushingly, but sensibly. When he tells you "No", obviously don't argue - but also thank him.

He likely needs to know that he can act like this without getting a typical modern "how dare you" response. As someone else said, ask him how to dress - and be happy when he tells you. Thank him again. Indicate to him that you want his guidance, like it, gratefully accept it. And if you catch yourself having been bossy, apologize later. Not in some offhand way, but in the way you would expect yourself to behave if you were "Taken In Hand" - contritely, formally, without any trace of sarcasm. Stand in front of him, with the right attitude and apologize to him. You might even suggest to him "please don't let me do it again".

But he can't get there on his own. You will need to indicate what you want and need, reinforce it by your behaviors and, most importantly, indicate that it is actually ok for him to take command!

I am glad your boyfriend has reacted positively. And I don't think you should feel mortified because you were open and talked to him about how you felt and what you wanted. I think it is good to talk. I found it an immense relief to be able to talk to my husband about Taken In Hand. I can't personally be doing with all this dropping hints, 'acting as if' stuff myself. Get it out in the open is what I say.

Louise