What would you have done differently at the beginning?

I too, would like some advice from other men and women already in Taken In Hand relationships (ones where both partners are happy).

What to say or do to signal to men that you're into Taken In Hand, as well as WHEN to discuss it, or to indicate through body language? When the man asks for your phone number, asks for a date, while on the date…? Other ideas? Don’t want to come across as being too forward. Should women ever be forward about this???

Ideas on what to say or do upon first meetings with new men--like at parties, social events/functions, when you're out doing errands, while grocery shopping, the gym, walking the dog?

What to say or do if the woman has a strong personality like Katherina in The Taming of the Shrew - BBC version (I'm less temperamental and angry than her though)...BUT is otherwise SHY around men, especially the men she's attracted to (and moreso when the interest is mutual)??...How do we keep our cool but not just stand there like a mute FOOL with googly-eyes, cheeks flushed?--When I know the interest is mutual, I tend to either get flustered and almost mute (don't know what to say), or I become overly chatty due to the nervousness...

Also, would you suggest ONLY dating men interested in Taken In Hand, or date anyone who asks (even if you have no idea if they're marriage-minded or not)?...just to get experience interacting with men, voicing your preferences, saying what you want and need, staying firmly GROUNDED in your feminine energy (or at least TRYING to remain in the feminine), being receptive to the man, allowing him to give to you and do things for you...all the while watching to see if he acts like a gentleman. I'm mentioning the dating anyone idea as a way to further "refine" a woman's femininity when with men--would this work? What's best to do?

I DO have an idea to share: find an older man you can be friends with who is a WELL-MANNERED, POLITE, MASCULINE & IN-CHARGE GENTLEMAN--a man who knows how to gently take charge with a woman. And by gently take charge, I mean he’s protective of you, he demonstrates leadership, isn’t a bully, and he acts like he’s in charge of both you and him as a UNIT (ship analogy: the man is captain of the ship, the woman is his first mate; the man is NOT trying to rule the whole sea). Any grandfathers, godfathers or older uncles who’ve been happily married who fit this Taken In Hand gentlemanly man description (doesn’t matter if they’re still married or are widowed). Maybe a friend’s parents or grandparents? Talk to happily married couples you may know who have an old-fashioned or traditional type of marriage with clearly defined gender roles or has Taken In Hand overtones (observe them). Befriend this older man or married couple and ask him/them to help guide you to learn what’s made their marriage a success. You’ll learn something about what it means to be a lady...

Note: Gentleman mentors are not men you’re supposed to date or become physically intimate with (i.e., no kissing, no sex). Their purpose is to be your friend and mentor only, and provide guidance and feedback when needed. You want this person to be a good ROLE MODEL demonstrating the kind of proper treatment you’d receive from your own future Taken In Hand man (the man you want to meet) who’d expect YOU to be a feminine lady!

I’m not suggesting stealing someone else’s husband. The goal is to allow him to be the masculine man so you can relax into the feminine and be the lady (or LEARN how to be the lady) while in his presence. If the man is married, watch how he treats his wife and how pleased she is with him when he does things to make her happy. Befriend the couple, not just the husband. You might well pick up some good advice from the wife too.

I would NOT have gotten married. I was married twice, and both times to domineering women. I think if I were ignorant of the problem that could be excusable, but I went into both marriages blinders off and fully cognizant of the pending developing disaster.

In both cases, I had a lack of self-confidence and had serious doubts of my self-worth. In the past, I blamed them both for the failure of each relationship. Lack of self-confidence and doubts of self-worth had nothing to do with the failures. My knowledge, combined with the needy dismissal of such, consumes the primary blame for those failures.

Since those times I have succeeded in bolstering my sense of confidence and self-worth. I myself am the most important person in my own life. I now terminate developing relationships in which I suspect the actions of a woman in my life even vaguely resembles the performance of those in my past, without question and frequently without comment.

Right or wrong, this is the way I deal with a current relationship. I freely admit that I am on the defensive because of the outcome of my past relationships.

In short, I sense how my needs are being met by the woman to whom I may be attached, and I am extremely intolerant. If she fails to prove me her worth, I summarily dismiss her from my life as unworthy of my consideration of her as my life-partner.

I have chosen this as an automatic response to women who waste my time. I have no desire for one who plays games.

Mike Starre

...I am curious as to why my "Protective Mechanism" *scares* you? That seems an odd response since it has no direct effect on you.

Mike Starre

Having thought about this before, I have a rather lengthy list of things that I would do differently. So does my wife. However, delineating the specifics would also require explaining the context of a very different age - when spanking a teenaged daughter, or even her mother, was not nearly as controversial as it would become less than a decade later.

Beyond the context is that - being relatively young when we began dating - neither of us had a *history*. Still in her teens, my future wife was a dean's list student at a university. I was not much older and trying to put my life back together after realizing - perhaps earlier than the war protester who would eventually torment other returning veterans - that the United States was going to lose Vietnam.

Strange as it may seem - especially in light of today's standards - neither of us was sexually active. She had never kissed a boy - then, neither had I.

Despite being a bookworm, my future wife wanted marriage and family. She was so determined to achieve her goal with someone she had admired from a distance for many years that she engineered our first date. In time, she would also be the one - in a roundabout way - to propose marriage!

The first time that I spanked my future wife - before our brief engagement - my intention was more like that of an older brother dealing with a conniving younger sister. Knowing what I know now - despite her virginity and embarrassment - I would have soundly spanked her *bared* buttocks!

Had we the luxury to engage in endless discussions - instead of sometimes spending many of our *dates* in the library - it would have been much better if we had discussed *wife spanking*. Instead, we stumbled into it.

Like many women, my wife thought that realizing her need to be spanked - rather than made to *take a spanking* - made her different. As a result, her longing to be put over a man's lap and soundly paddled on her bare buttocks remained a closely guarded secret until after marriage.

Again - knowing what I know now - despite the absence of conflict during our engagement or honeymoon - I would have paddle my bride on our honeymoon. As a mother with married daughters advised, newly marrieds *need to get it out of the way* because, eventually, the couple is going to have to decide about what to do about paddling the wife.

The woman went on to explain, from personal experience, she discovered that the honeymoons provided an excellent opportunity for couples to get a feel for how they are likely to interact with each other when the wife probably does not want *her little backside paddled*!

Thus, while the couple is *still in love*, they can work out the mechanics so that - when *the time comes* later in the marriage - they are not faced with having to argue over the paddling in addition to solving whatever problem they face at the time.

Had spanking not becomes so controversial as our children were growing up, I would have liked to explained to them - no unlike parents introduce sex in age-appropriate litte talks - why *Daddy sometimes spanks Mommy*. As thing turned out, we were caught in the act and had to provide an impromptu explanation.

Still, despite our miscues and mistakes, our marriage has survived well over forty years. Along the way, while remaining faithful to each other, we both earned advanced degrees and prepared our children to exceed our accomplishments.

Mike, I'd like to give you some feedback about your response as a single woman looking to meet a Taken In Hand kind of man like yourself. Feminine women are feeling-based and can intuitively sense angry, bitter, and defensive men. We're not going to be very open or receptive to men who approach us with angry and defensive attitudes (or if we sense your hidden anger rising up from your depths somewhere in the first shared conversation, we may end up excusing ourselves to get away). A man's anger makes a woman feel unsafe and scared. We can feel the anger and it's a red flag. It will be *MUCH* harder to meet women who will be receptive to you with your defensive attitude/emotional wall up. Granted, you do have reason to be angry all right, but it is COMPLETELY unfair to the future woman you want to meet to make her "jump through hoops" just to pre-qualify her as someone suitable to date based on your past experience. It's like you're silently saying to the woman "OK, PROVE IT to me that you're worth my time..." It implies that a) not only do you think you're a superior person compared to her (person-to-person, not based on gender), but also b) you're making her WORK for your attention, which is most ungentlemanly (and rather backwards, as masculine men do the pursuing, not women). Not appealing.

Furthermore, if you do end up dating a woman who submits to this kind of manner you project outwards, you'll most likely soon find out that she's not the kind of woman that you'd want for a relationship at all (i.e., a scared little house mouse woman, insecure, spineless, and a pro at being a doormat for men to stomp on). [NOTE: I totally just made up this term "house mouse"; it came to me as I was writing this and it felt appropriate to phrase it this way.] Okay, now back to the point...This kind of weak woman I just described is not attractive and is a turn-off for most men (except perhaps for abusive men who like to manipulate and control the feeble and vulnerable).

If I met a man who was saying or implying that I had "prove it" to him that I'm worth his time, I'd be gone in a flash, thinking the guy is an arrogant jerk, and I'd move on to meet other men who'd be kind, friendly and interested in knowing more about me from the start.

I am not in any way trying to attack your character nor insult you. I want to be clear about that.

Why not assume that all men and women you talk to are FRIENDLY & NICE PEOPLE? You gotta BE the FRIENDLY & NICE man too, though--it goes both ways. Assume people are friends you haven't met yet. If you do this, you put out a good vibe and can even shift people who were in a BAD MOOD a moment before into being friendly right back! If you put out a good vibe, you'll be more likely to get good vibes in return from others. If you put out a defensive and intolerant vibe, people will be more cautious and stay away or try to avoid being around you. These "VIBES" are contagious. Bad vibes make people want to walk away (think ticking time bomb). Good vibes make people want to stick around longer.

What if instead of testing the woman, and making her "prove it to you" that she's worth your time, you considered being more forthcoming about your intentions when you first meet her? Before parting company, ask her out for a date--and after she accepts your invitation--also mention that you're dating for the purpose of marriage in mind, wanting to find your future wife (IF that's what you want). Then you can ask her what her intentions are for dating. If you find out she doesn't want marriage, a relationship or she just wants to date around, you can find this info out BEFORE even having gone on a first date with the woman!

If you want marriage, only date women who want marriage too. This will eliminate the game players. To avoid dating any domineering women who also happen to be interested in marriage (wrong people with same end goal), tell them that the kind of marriage you want is one where the man is the boss and HOH and whatever else you care to share about a marriage where the husband takes his wife in hand. DO ASK her what kind of marriage she wants though, and listen carefully. If she looks at you in disbelief like you have two heads after you say this and she replies with "Jeez, Mike, this is 2009, I'm a MODERN woman and I'd want a MODERN marriage. The 'traditional' marriage of the 1950s is SO done (said with a sneer or tone of indignation). I want a 50-50 split and to be treated as an equal to my partner." Or if she spouts out any kind of feminist drivel like men oppressing women in setups like that then there you've got it, that's your answer--probably not the woman for you, and you'd likely be butting heads in a non-romantic way, as she'd probably be trying to boss YOU around and tell YOU what to be doing, which is obviously not what you want.

If you listen to her answer and it deviates far from your ideal of what a marriage should look like, you can eliminate the women unsuitable for you. Otherwise, if she shares similar views on marriage, she'll say so, and then you can look forward to your first date with her.

Good luck! :):):)

Haha, you're most welcome, Pericles :)

How unfortunate that you've encountered some rather unpleasant and angry men. I feel for you in your disappointment. Keep your chin up! There are good men out there--but it's mostly a matter of SORTING out the good ones from the lesser variety--and BEING SHARP & QUICK about it too always helps. Hone your RED-FLAG radar, if you haven't already done so. Observe. Watch. Listen. If he's the wrong man, he'll pretty much screen HIMSELF out by not demonstrating chivalrous, gentlemanly behavior. Be a LADY, act like a lady, expect men to treat you well, and accept nothing less. Benefit: The jerk/player types will be less likely to approach you as they will sense that you have higher standards that they can't/won't meet. They'll go for someone else who is an easier target/victim for whatever their purpose or selfish reasons.

I don't want to "fix" a man. Men are not to be viewed as projects needing fixing. Sure, many of them need improvement and/or need to be fixed to be "normal", but I am not going to waste my time with someone like that.

I feel like an emotionally available man would be someone who's already got his "emotional drawbridge" down, neutral and ready for travelers to cross over to the other side. He's accessible, not trying to "test" women by requiring they jump the moat to the entranceway.

If a man is hostile towards women, my body feels it and reacts with a silent internal scream, the growing tension urging me to get away. Please trust your intuition if you feel something is "off" with the man, or if you feel uneasy with him or if he's being pushy or insistent. It's not necessary to KNOW what that "it" is, since something inside of you is trying to get your attention. It may very well save your life.

You are most welcome for the suggestion, Mike. ALSO, I hope it works well for you (assuming you DO choose to state your intentions to the woman early on).

I believe I must have misinterpreted your words in your previous response. My sincerest apologies.

As a side note...since we're all "conversing" here through typed text, sometimes things do get unintentionally misinterpreted by other readers (myself included). Typed text can miss some of the subtler nuances in meaning simply because the words are read on-screen and are not spoken aloud.

"I exhibit NO harsh feelings toward any woman I ask on a date. Were I to do so, I SERIOUSLY doubt she would accept."

---AHH...YES, I see your point and this makes sense.

"I don't have a wall up. I just have a finely tuned "Red Flag Detector" in place."

Thank you for the explanation. Now I understand what you meant.

Hmm, since you say your Red Flag Detector is finely tuned, would you be willing to share what you've found with it??? Perhaps there are things that some of us could learn from your past experiences--beneficial for both the men and women readers of this site.