A breakdown on the road to intimacy

The path to intimacy isn't always smooth. There are bumps, obstacles, stop signs and potholes. In our twenty years of marriage, Missy and I have navigated our share of these obstacles, but recently, using Taken In Hand articles to guide us, we have been working to smooth out the road ahead by increasing the intimacy between us and making what was very good even better.

We started off like a world-class sprinter out of the starting blocks, went a ways, got a cramp here and there that slowed us down, but kept going, then settled into a pretty good pace for a long distance race.

Then we hit a snag. It was a conflict. Missy was upset. She had made a commitment for us as a couple without first checking with me, and she was upset because she thought that I would be angry with her. She had indeed made a mistake. Don't get me wrong. Missy is a free thinker, an intelligent woman, and these are qualities that I cherish in her. But my time and role in the commitment was substantial so I should indeed have been involved in making this decision.

We were driving home and we were both hungry and tired, which sometimes doesn't make for the most constructive conversation. Then Missy told me about this commitment she had made for us. It really was a mistake, and Missy kind of knew it was too, because she seemed to feel the need to justify her action. Knowing that we were both tired and a bit out of sorts, I wanted to avoid having a big discussion about it that might turn ugly. Later, I called the people involved and backed out of the commitment – in a gracious, face-saving way (I think) that made it appear that I didn't properly communicate my desires to Missy. That solved the problem regarding the commitment.

But in the car, Missy became upset because she did not like being told that the decision was not a good one. She is sometimes very prideful (as I am), and doesn't like being told that she is not perfect, and that I wasn't very happy (remember, we were probably both a bit grumpy, tired, etc.) about the decision. Unfortunately, although I was trying to do the best thing I could at the time, in trying to avoid getting into a big discussion about it, I probably inadvertently exacerbated Missy's distress, and her refusal to drop the matter in turn made me feel harangued and annoyed. This then made her fear a disciplinary session over my knee.

This fear of discipline threw her into a tizzy. I was shocked and gravely alarmed. This did not reflect well on how she was viewing being taken in hand physically. Her fear made me put on the brakes to stop any further action regarding this particular issue, and discipline in general.

It wasn't easy to do this. I had embraced our Taken In Hand relationship from the first day. It was the beginning of a feeling of fulfillment that I had never known before. Just as importantly, our relationship was like new, on fire, and hitting on all cylinders. We were suddenly a couple in the purest sense of the word, in a way that we had never been before. While our marriage had always been very good, it was now the stuff that others only dream of.

But I am no abuser, and I could not in good conscience continue to discipline Missy given its apparent effect on her. We had to stop. We had to identify what was wrong, evaluate it, and correct it, or a crash was sure to come. So, we talked, and talked, and talked. Finally, it came out: Missy relished the playful spankings, but the disciplinary ones totally destroyed her emotionally. The basis for her reaction was, she discovered and then confided in me, that she saw a discipline spanking as a form of rejection. Of course, I did my best to assure her that I love her unconditionally, and that, while I may be upset over something said or done occasionally, I would never reject her.

In talking more about this, we discovered that Missy's anguish had nothing to do with the physical aspect of the spanking. She realized that she was feeling this anguish whenever I would become upset – whether discipline was involved or not. Her anguish was not about the spanking, it was about wanting me never ever to be upset, even when I am so tired and out of sorts that it would take a saint not to be a bit grumpy.

This revelation made me re-examine how our relationship had been before we had introduced Taken In Hand ideas into our marriage. In his article, What I get out of it, Todd Evans said, “In the past, I always felt I had to suppress my natural tendency to control. Where then, I would keep things to myself so as not to rock the boat (at great cost to myself, it has to be said), ...” This is what I had been doing myself, before we introduced these ideas. In an effort not to upset Missy or rock the marriage boat, I had tended to avoid addressing problems. With the introduction of Taken In Hand ideas, this changed, and I had started addressing problems. While that was a good thing, as it solved what had been a problem in our marriage, it highlighted the existing but hitherto unrecognized problem of Missy tending to feel rejected and wounded whenever I mentioned any problem or mistake on her part.

With all of this in our heads, I had Missy read some of the articles dealing with being taken in hand. She started with Frank Nelson's article, It's not about blame, so forget ‘fairness’!, then read the articles by Blush and The King and all of the comments associated with those articles. The focus of all the articles she read was on intimacy: rejection wasn't even considered as they described discipline. As she read, it hit her that discipline doesn't have to mean rejection, and that for Taken In Hand couples, it is the opposite of rejection. As the boss has written in her article, Why you should not withhold spanking!, it is actually a reaffirmation of the relationship. Missy realized that the problem was that she had an unrealistic expectation that I would never ever be a bit grumpy or think that some action she had taken was a mistake.

Missy also noticed that not only did the women writing on Taken In Hand not experience rejection, but these ladies used the spankings to further the intimacy within their relationships. This was an eye-opener for Missy. After her research, she sent me a message while I was at work and stated, “It seems that I’m the only one who is experiencing feelings of rejection. I think I’ve been seeing things incorrectly and that it’s time to focus on intimacy – even in our disagreements and upsets.”

That was music to my ears, since intimacy has been the goal that I have been pursuing all along.

Missy now views my firm hand with loving acceptance, and has even encouraged me to deal with any little problems or upsets we have, with discipline as the motivator. After a recent encounter over my knee, she snuggled next to me to thank me, then declared, “Well, we’re back on track and it feels wonderful.”

With this roadblock behind us, we have resumed the journey. Drive on.

[It would be interesting to hear of others' upsets and how they handled their problems within this intense and most intimate form of relationship.]

Sam

Taken In Hand Tour start | next

Have you seen the following articles?
What do you mean, you want to be taken in hand?!
What kind of site is this? D/s? TPE? CP? DD? ABCD?
Reaching out by offering yourself
Laying the groundwork for other possibilitiesWhat does the man get out of it? Many things!
I want...
Does it have to hurt to be Taken In Hand?
The dual failures of men
Letter to a potential partner
Out of control, insane, driven by our emotions? No way!

2004 Feb 22 - 23:45 | add new comment | latest article | previous article | next article |

Bumpy Roads

Hi Sam,

When I read this I realised that you had an incredible amount of respect and love for your wife. It struck me that on sites like this we tend to hear from people who are just starting out on Taken in Hand relationships and what they need or we hear from people who have spent a lot of time and energy in their Taken in Hand relationships and have fantastic relationships because of it. It might give the impression that once you got the ball rolling there was a happily ever after effect!

I think that most people, quite like you, experience bumps along the road. We have had several of those bumps where we have wondered if the Taken in Hand part of our relationship could actually endure the bumps. A few times in the last 18 months we have wondered what the heck we were up to, and what made us think that we could live this way in the first place. Some of the people you wrote about, and many more, have helped us tremendously to navigate the bumps.

The last bump we had happened only in September. I thought during it that our Taken in Hand relationship was over for good. Nothing we had experience before that had come close to the intensity of the experience. My husband decided out of the blue that Taken in Hand was not for him. I kind of freaked. I mean things were going along so well, and there had never even been a hint of a problem in many months. Then I was shocked with this revelation of his. I was dumbfounded.

I wonder if it is different when it is the woman who has the problem, rather than the man. When the woman has the problem the head of the household can put on the brakes, take charge of the situation and slow or even reverse the pace. Since my husband controls the pace for us, when he threw out the anchor rather suddenly it threw me for a loop. Because I had been blindsided, I got rather emotional. It cumulated into a rather large fight, in minutes. It did not last very long, because the more we fought and the more hurtful things that were said, the more my husband wanted to take me in hand. It ended with a climatic spanking and my husband saying, "I feel so much better; I guess I really am like this after all!"

We did a lot of talking after that and my husband came to the conclusion that it was his upbringing that was still causing the problems. Both of us thought we were past this, but in a moment going against the grain of what he was brought up to be right was too much for him. In a moment going against the grain caused him to feel extremely uneasy and even nauseated. Socialization can be a powerful thing. Anyway once he knew what the problem was, he could sort it out for himself. Since then he has become a much better leader for us. He is stronger and more decisive than ever.

Even thought the bumps can be painful to get over, sometimes getting over them helps us learn more about why this works so well for us.

Thanks for sharing this.
Take care,
Tevemer

by Tevemer on 2005 Jan 25 - 22:09 | reply to this comment

Redefined Relationship

We have been in a Taken In Hand relationship for quite some time now. It has gone quite well and changed our lives in different ways.It has brought alot of good things into our marriage and into our intimacy.

I have written before that I have been on a journey about obedience and recently found that I have not arrived anywhere. I have learned a lot but I have a long way to go.

Here I am thinking that we are doing just fine then there was a situation that I needed to obey and I didn't. Well, instead of cooperating with my husband I fought him. This did not sit well with him and we got into an argument. He was right, I wasn't; but I wasn't willing to concede or submit. I can be very stubborn at times. I thought I knew where this was all going but I wasn't prepared for him to say "Fine!" Do you want to give up Taken In Hand? Because if we are going to go through this we might as well give it up. Boy, it became so quiet you could have heard a pin drop. I looked at him and he demanded an answer out of me. I replied that I didn't want to give it up and he didn't want to either. So we decided to start over with a clearer understanding of what we wanted and why.

That evening I spent some time being reminded about the consequences of disobedience. When he tells me it is time to meet with him then I have to submit. This is actually a good time in our life and it has helped to have clarity of our Taken IN Hand relationship.

It was not a fun evening but I have a much clearer understanding of what obedience is and how and why it applies to me and to our relationship.

by Kat on 2005 Feb 9 - 02:20 | reply to this comment

fighting the authority we want

Kat,

I found your story touchingly honest. I wonder why we ask for them to take us in hand, but then fight it sometimes? I do not want him to stop being in control but some times I do get the feeling that I should balk at what he wants. It has nothing to do with not wanting him to be in control, I can not explain it. I know swallowing my pride and obeying is sometimes difficult. We have so far managed to get through it. As time goes on it gets easier for me. We have a lot of old patterns to rid ourselves of. Thanks for sharing.

Take care,
Tevemer

by Tevemer on 2005 Feb 23 - 20:42 | reply to this comment

fighting obedience

I think it is perfectly natural that you would occasionally be disobedient, nobody feels 100 percent submissive all the time after all.

The fact that your husband asked you if you wanted to stop doing this is a very good sign, it shows he has a healthy awareness that you COULD stop doing it, and that you haven't signed an unbreakable contract in blood or anything. It is good that he retains a firm grip on reality.

That you don't find being spanked fun is I think a pity, because I feel it ought to be fun, but if it made you feel better then that's a good thing.

by Louise C on 2005 Feb 24 - 06:40 | reply to this comment

conflicted feelings

Louise,

I'm not sure natural has much to do with it honestly. It is not about being perfectly submissive. I do not think there is such a thing really. I do not think there is anything wrong with not feeling submissive, but I know for me this is not really what it is about.

For me it is often about being conflicted. I want this, but I fight it sometimes. In these times there is something in me that wants him to push a little harder, take a little more control. I do not want my husband to constantly remind me that I can get out. I know I can. He reminding me makes me feel insecure. I want to feel that I can do anything and he can accept it and maintain control of the situation. Of course this does not happen all the time we are only human. If he asks me if I am sure I want to do this anymore I get doubts about whether he wants to and is looking for a way out. It may seem silly to someone who is so obviously so self assured all the time about everything, but not all of us are like that.

I find many people often have conflicting and sometimes opposite feelings about Taken In Hand relationships and sometimes spanking if they include this in their relationship. I can have conflicted and opposite feelings at the same time. I can say, "No please do not spank me" and mean it AND I can really want him to do it anyway. I might feel really angry if he changes him mind about some thing and also feel relieved. It is not black and white. Or maybe it is black and white at the same time for me sometimes.

I find obedience hard sometimes, but what I do not want is for him to remind me that I do not need to be obedient. I want him to remind me that I must be obedient because this is what he has decided and he is the one in charge. I want to feel like I have no choice. I am not saying this is the way it was for Kat, but it is the way it is for me. Kat's situation seems to have worked out fine. I just think there are different ways of looking at that same situation.

Take care,
Tevemer

by Tevemer on 2005 Feb 24 - 18:24 | reply to this comment

Conflicting feelings

There's nothing wrong with having conflicted feelings, I have them all the time about everything.

But I have seen things written on this site and elsewhere that do suggest to me that people can believe that a Taken In Hand relationship, once entered into, is something that can't be got out of. People who seem to think they have to accept anything their partners dish out, regardless of whether they are happy or not. I do think the fact that Kat's husband is aware that they could stop doing it is a healthy sign, and I do think it is good that he retains a firm grasp of reality. He may have thought that Kat's rebellion meant she wasn't happy with having a Taken In Hand relationship any more, and I think it is good that he felt able to discuss this. He obviously cares about her happiness, and I think that's great. What she wants obviously matters more to him than gratifying his own dominant inclinations, and that's all to the good.

If your reference to someone being self assured about everything is meant to be directed at me, you are quite in error. I have no self-confidence whatever, and never did. Good grief, you don't imagine I talk to people in real life the way I do on this website, do you? In real life I hardly ever talk to anybody at all, most people aren't even aware that I can talk. I've certainly never talked to anybody in real life about the stuff I talk about on here!

Take care yourself,

louise

by Louise C on 2005 Feb 25 - 07:53 | reply to this comment

Wanting out

Louise,

I was actually not speaking about Kat at all. I was speaking about myself. I can not speak for Kat because I have no idea what her needs are. I think Kat's husband must know her well, and obviously choose the right way for them. My point was to say that not everyone wants their husband to ask them if they want out. I personally do not like that. It makes me feel insecure. I like the security of his authority very much. It is that whole consensual non-consent thing. I like the control of him doing things that I do not feel I want. To some people there is a lot of security in the HOH having this kind of control, and authority. I know that you never want, or seem to never want, your husband to do anything that you do not want. That is fine because it works very well for you. All I was trying to do was show the opposite point of veiw. This works very well for us. I am not trying to convince you my point of view is right. My POV is only right for me. Sometimes I like to post a different perspective.

By the way you do come across to me as someone with a lot of self confidence, on this site. You have strong opinions and you do seem to know exactly what you feel about your relationship. I am not judging that quality, it is not a bad quality. :) I rarely see a lot of doubt in your posts. I do not talk about my relationship with people offline either, at least not the Taken in Hand part of it. I have strongly felt opinions just like you do. I just feel very conflicted at times about my relationship. It never means I want my husband to offer giving up control of our relationship. It usually means he is not taking enough control. I was not saying that no one should ever offer giving up control; just how that would make me feel. I wonder how other people feel about this?

Thanks for the discussion.

Take care,
Tevemer

by Tevemer on 2005 Feb 26 - 04:25 | reply to this comment

Offer Giving Up Control

Ending my control in a relationship to me is the same as ending the relationship itself. A few days ago a woman with whom I would have started a relationship rightfully accused me of being a control freak. I told her that if she doesn't want a control freak then she doesn't want me. Things have chilled considerably between us since then.

It's nice to know up front the chances of compatibility so that one can nip unpleasantries in the bud. ;-)

KrosRogue

by KrosRogue on 2005 Feb 27 - 07:47 | reply to this comment

Wanting out

In the case of Kat's husband, I assume that he felt the need to ask her if she wanted to stop doing it because he felt that this might be the case, it was something he needed to get sorted out. there doesn't seem to me to be much point in a man just assuming that it is all right for him to be in charge if he has doubts about this. I was under the impression that Taken In Hand was supposed to make couples more open with each other, therefore if Kat's husband had serious worries about whether or not Kat wanted to go on doing it, then it seems to me good that he should discuss this with her.

As for not wanting my husband to do things to me that I don't want him to, well that's true, but then I'm a one-dimensional kind of person, and I don't enjoy having things done to me that I don't like. You say you do, but | wonder how enthusiastic you would be if he wanted to do something to you that you REALLY didn't like. How far exactly does this consensual non-cosent go with people who claim to like it? I bet there's things you WOULDN'T let him do to you!

I may come across as a person of self-confidence on this site, but I assure you I don't have any at all. After all, how do we know that anybody on this site is the way they portray themselves? Or even who they portray themselves as being. I have represented myself as a forty-eight year old Surrey housewife, but I could be a twenty-three-year-old male apprentice gas-fitter from Stoke-on-Trent, everything I have said on this site could be total fantasy. KrosRogue could be an 18-year-old Women's Studies student from Vasser, portraying herself as her own worst nightmare. Who knows? EVERYONE on this site could be a total fantasist!

by Louise C on 2005 Feb 28 - 06:36 | reply to this comment

Another thought

It occurs to me that, if you really want your husband to be totally in charge, in control, be able to do whatever he wants to you regardless of whether you like it or not, then surely he ought also to be able to talk to you about whatever he wants to talk about, whether you like it or not? Isn't it your duty, as a good little wife, to listen to him no matter what he wants to talk about, if he truly is totally in charge?

by Louise C on 2005 Feb 28 - 07:45 | reply to this comment

Re: Conflicted feelings

I know exactly what you mean Tevemer. I don`t want my husband to remind me that I can get out, if anything I want more of his loving control and I want him to demand obedience from me. It makes me feel safe, wanted and loved. You`re right it is sometimes very hard to be obedient even if that`s what you really want.

by Autumn on 2005 Feb 28 - 14:51 | reply to this comment

Wanting to talk

Louise,

I hope you were not referring to me as the little wife in a derogatory way. I hope that in England your post would be seen as civil, not at all insulting and perhaps a compliment. Where I come from when people call someone the "little wife" they are usually being rude and dismissive.

As for my husband wanting to talk, yes if he did feel he needed to talk to me, I would talk to him. That is not because we are in a Taken in Hand relationship; it is because that is what happy married couples do if they want to stay happily married.

I assumed the same thing as you when I read Kat's post. I assumed that her husband loved her very much and made a very wise decision. What occurred to me though was how I would feel under those circumstances. As Autumn said below there are other women who feel the same way I do. I would find it stressful to be asked if I wanted out of our Taken in Hand arrangement. We have discussed this possibility, me wanting out, and we have decided that unless I tell him I want out specifically he should assume I do not. That is how we operate. I was in no way criticising Kat's husband's decision. It worked wonderfully for her. I was simply exploring what my reaction to the same situation would be. I was talking about myself and my husband.

I know that it can be difficult to understand how someone could thrive in a relationship where her husband will do things she does not like, but I do. In the situation that Kat described MY husband's wise decision would be to take more control, exert his authority more. This would bring us back to a place of harmony, where we are both happy. Everyone is different I am simply trying to give this situation another perspective. I am perfectly happy in my relationship. I do not know if you maybe think I am an imbecile or some thing. I have put a lot of thought into my life. We have put a lot of work into our Taken in Hand relationship. We have had our own bumps; one of our major ones is above. We are not the same as you. That should be ok. It should be safe for me to be different from you. I do not criticise your life. You seem happy. You should share your experiences, because there are others out there who would like a relationship like you have. I too am happy and I would never tell you that you should be more like me. The reason I write to Taken in Hand is to share my experience with others, and hopefully learn some things. So far I have been so fortunate to learn so much from the online community.

Take care,
Tevemer

by Tevemer on 2005 Feb 28 - 21:23 | reply to this comment

Ending control

Kros,

I have read other people say the exact same thing. That withdrawing consent would in essence be ending the relationship or ending the control by the HOR would also be ending the relationship. It can be a very fundamental part of some people’s relationship.

I am not sure what would happen to one of us if one or the other wanted out. We have been married for almost 12 years and we have a lot of history there. I do not think that I could divorce him anymore than I could divorce my own right arm. I just love him too much. I think it would depend on what the reason for the withdrawal of my consent. For me to withdraw consent things would have to have gone pretty far astray. I imagine what ever cause me to lose trust might be relationship threatening anyway. I am not sure because it is hypothetical. I feel for people who are looking for life partners. Sometimes it seems really difficult. I have no experience what so ever. I met my husband in my late teens and have been with him ever since. Anyway good luck on your search and thanks for sharing your experiences.

Take care,
Tevemer

by Tevemer on 2005 Mar 1 - 14:54 | reply to this comment

Tevemer, I dont think there

Tevemer, I don't think there is any way anyone would think you are an imbecile. You are a thoughtful, articulate, knowing and intelligent person and I think all your postings add value. Tatiana

by a Taken In Hand reader on 2005 Mar 2 - 05:20 | reply to this comment

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