Louise, what can I say but you did it again. You go girl!!! I think your review of this book is right on. I couldn't agree more and I haven't even read it. Don't plan on it either.

You should write a book. A comical book on the life of a Taken In Hand woman. The memoirs of a spanked woman. There's your title. (LOL) Think about it.

Oh my God, what a bunch of clichés! I'll definitely make sure never to waste money on THAT book, but I'd love to read Louise's memoirs should they ever get written indeed...

I have a card from an old friend with a Maya Angelou quote which reads "A woman in harmony with her spirit is like a river flowing. She goes where she will without pretense and arrives at her destination prepared to be herself and only herself". I have no idea who Agnes Wickfield or Dora are, but I too find books which tell me how I should be annoying. Although, I would agree with delegating disposal of creepy crawlies to the male domain, in fact I have been known to tell male co-workers that if he were a gentleman he would kill whatever it is that has just freaked me out. But I would become awfully confused and wind up cooing like a cat or purring like a pigeon at just the wrong time.

As an antidote for books such as Fascinating Womanhood (which I have not read, and will not be adding to my reading list anytime soon) which assume to tell us how we should be, I recommend "Strengths Finder 2.0" by Tom Rath, along with the online character theme assessment. Waste no more time on what you are not, find out what makes you you, and be more of it. And wait for the man who appreciates you for who you are and will give you whatever you want, not in a spoiled brat way, but in a manner of teaching you to assert your needs and wants. The best gift you can give a man is your true self.

LOL, Louise, thanks for your hilarious review of a very absurd book. Personally I have certain bug phobias but I can tell you, I have "rescued" my husband from a number of other much more serious situations than a waterbug in the bathtub.

The only slight area where I agree with her is that I think it's not a great idea to give a man sex every time he wants it, because yes, I think he'll take you for granted if you are always available.

On the other hand he'll probably love it if you occasionally seduce him.

But the rest of it is so incredibly nonsensical. I do think all these self help books are useful only for people who haven't a clue how to handle their own lives, and they mostly do nothing but enrich the authors.

In fact, after writing one successful book, self help authors follow them up with a bunch of other books, which if you read carefully, are basically warmed over versions of the first book all over again. It's a nice racket. I ought to get into it, I could use a few million bucks.

"Pat"

Well, I do like staying at home with my children, and I spend a lot of time doing things with them. I do go on the computer occasionally, but the amount of time I spend on it is small compared to the amount of time I spend doing other things. And yes, my children get on my nerves occasionally. I don't know anyone whose children don't get on their nerves from time to time. If yours never irritated you then you're a lucky woman. I've no doubt that you are the perfect wife and mother, your house is always immaculate, your children perfectly behaved, and you never spend any time on the computer at all. and I'm sure you're an absolutely perfect blend of Agnes and Dora. Well, I am not like you unfortunately, I am not the perfect housewife, my children are frequently messy, destructive uncouth and rude,and never stop trying to kill each other. And I do go on the computer from time to time. And my children seem to be quite happy in spite of that. And I am incapable of being a combination of Agnes/Dora, but fortunately my husband doesn't seem to want me to be. We all get on each other's nerves from time to time, but that's life. And if I did find a job, anything I earned would most likely be spent on childcare, so that wouldn't do any of us much good. I think they're better off being looked after by me, imperfect though I may be, than by strangers. As for telling my children to clean up their rooms, you must be joking. They never clean ANYTHING, I'm the one who cleans their rooms up while they're at school, then they trash them when they're home again. However, both my children are mostly happy and cheerful, and they do well at school. No 2 son's teachers never stop telling me how bright he is and how well-informed, and how he obviously learns a lot at home from us taking an interest in him etc. So we must be doing something right. And, this being half-term week, I've been out with them somewhere every day this week, not staying glued to the computer in case you were wondering.

And I did point out in my review that the book is full of testimonials from women whose marriages have been made happier by adopting Mrs Andelin's philosophy. I simply said it wasn't for me. That is why I called my review 'Fascinating Womanhood and me' . It was a PERSONAL view of the book. There are a lot of things advocated in this book that would be disastrous for my own relationship. if I faked a fear of spiders for instance, there wouldn't be ANYONE to get them out of the bath, and what would we do then? And if I beat on my husband's chest with my fists I probably wouldn't sit down for a week. And if I started refusing to have sex with him because too much isn't good for him that would make BOTH of us unhappy. I wrote in this article how the book made me feel personally, if there are women to whose soul it speaks then that's great for them. I merely said that the book didn't do anything for me. I was advised to read it and I did. And I said what I thought of it. If you look on amazon.com you will find that there are a lot of reviews from people who loved it, and a lot from people who hated it. Both are entitled to speak their minds.

Louise

Well, I must say, having read the book, I find Louise's comments to be humorous yet seem to be missing some key points.

First, I call to any man on this site to reply if they are ready and willing to change themselves for a woman. Most men I have ever known have no ready desire to change. So I think what Mrs. Andelin is realy saying is love your man as he is. Don't expect or insist him to change because it's what you want.

With regard to admiring a man, well if the love of his life doesn't admire him, who can he count on to? Who will feed his ego in this way? Many an affair has begun because a man has not felt he was getting the attention he wants. It's sad and misguided perhaps, yet bears truth.

Good men deserve admiration from their ladies.

Yes someone must lead, wear the pants, call it what you want. Two leaders can create chaos if they are of differing opinion often enough. Remember, Louise, it is sometimes not so much needing to be right as it is to be happy.

I do think Mrs. Andelin's point about obedience, though I am not fond of the word, really means creating harmony. If a lady always goes against the grain of her man, disrespect can run rampant. Children need structure, rules. If they do not learn examples of obedience within the family, where will they learn it?

I would certainly not want to judge a man by his fears, however, I would certainly want to know that a man will be there to protect me if that need for me arises. Jump in front of the bus, the train, etc. Oh my, didn't Hollywood movies of yore show us just that? Think Tarzan the studly ape man. Men like to protect their lady. It's inbred.

Don't fault Mrs. Andelin and expect her to have an answer for every culture around the world. Her fact is plain and simple to Western societies where her book was published. Chivalry is not dead, thankfully. Can I remove a spider, yes, with enough tissue in hand. My man will use his bare hands.

Fascinating Womanhood was penned in the '60's at a time when more women were homemakers. This was pre-women's lib in western society. Let's keep this in context. That her book has a following after so many years, is phenomenal. That she retained its original content so thoroughly is charming.

I am not sure what version of the book you have read, Louise, mine did not include a woman making idle threats of "wait until I get you home", etc. My version had the lady calling the man a brute. Not being angry or threatening. Men don't like threats. Men don't like being referred to like the bottom end of the human anatomy. But call a man a brute and he will likely be amused. Because a brute connotates a big strong man taking advantage of a lovely lady and what man would wnat to do that? Female charm, even in moments of anger, can serve to enhance the man/woman connection rather then drive the man away.

I think Mrs. Andelin was genuinely trying to address the concerns of a woman who may be up to her eyeballs in caring for everyone and perhaps a bit too strained or tired for the frequency of sex. This happens. To try to divert the man's attention is far healthier then bruising his ego and making him feel unwanted.

As for being a domestic goddess, I will excuse Louise for she has made her preferences clear, however, I have never met a man who did not appreciate walking in to a well kept, orderly home.

And yes, the fair lady should not speak crudely. Why, wasn't it Eliza Doolittle who learned this very lesson? Eloquence of speech and characters breeds respect.

Louise put great effort in to her review. My hope is that before she make fun of Mrs. Andelin's efforts, she give it a wee bit more thought as to what the words really mean to making life for your man happy and sweet.

L

First, I do not believe that someone 'must' be the leader in a marriage. I believe that will only work if both people desire that kind of relationship.

And most men may not have a desire to change, but our relationship for instance would not have improved if my husband had not been willing to meet me halfway and make some changes to his own behaviour. Both of us make a greater effort now and it has improved things.

And my husband won't remove a spider from the bath with or without tissues, whereas I am happy to remove them with my bare hands, and put them out in the garden (I'd never dare kill one, my mother would come back to haunt me)

The section on 'childlike threats' which is on page 322 of my edition (revised in 1992), does include 'you wait till I get you home' and all the other expressions I quoted. I did not make it up. Mrs Andelin does not describe these as 'idle' threats, but as 'exaggerated childlike threats.' Apparently some men find that sort of thing cute. If I spoke to my husband like that I'd get a bloody good hiding.

And when she talks about not always having sex with a man, she is quite specific that having sex with a man every time he wants it is bad for him, like giving a little boy a cookie every time he asks for it (she uses that exact comparison, I'm not making that up either).

My husband likes a well-kept orderly home too,and I try harder with that now, but I have met who don't give a damn about that sort of thing. For instance, just afer Christmas we went round to see a couple who are old friends of ours. He is an ex-boyfriend of mine, she is an ex-girlfriend of my husband, so we all know each other pretty well. Their house was an absolute tip, piles of stuff everywhere, everything in chaos, every room in the house disorderly. Neither of them gives a damn about keeping their house orderly, it's something he in particular has never cared about. when we were young and going out together he used to drive ME mad with the amount of mess he made, that's how bad he was. I used to go round clearing up after him and muttering angrily to myself.

Whatever kind of accent they may speak with, I've never known a woman yet who didn't enjoy discussing people they dislike, nothing brings you closer together with another person that discussing a third person who neither of you can stand.

Sometimes the banality of Mrs Andelin's thinking leaves me gasping. For instance, in the section on 'simple pleasures' she suggests that listening to bird song is pefereable to listening to opera. I toyed with the idea of suggesting to my brother, a life-long opera fan, that he try listening to the birds next time he feels like going to the opera, but thought better of it. I suspsect, though, that Mrs Andelin wouldn't disapprove so much of my brother spending money on opera tickets, I think she only feels it is sinful if women spend money on their own pleasures.

I found this book immensely entertaining, there's a laugh on almost every page. I did, however, point out tha this is a PERSONAL view of the book, and that there are many women who have apparently benefited from reading it, the book is full of their glowing testimonials. I have no doubt that many women just love trying to be Agnes and Dora at one and the same time, it is simply beyond me.

Louise

"A bird doesn't sing because it has an answer, it sings because it has a song." - Lou Holtz

You have once more brought glee to my life. Thank you

Hali

My husband occasionally surprises me by indicating to me that he has read something on this site. Such an incident occured this afternoon when he told me he'd read this article. "I am NOT afraid of spiders." he informed me severely. I was suprised, but on reflection realised that i had been confusing him in my mind with my sons, all three of whom are terrified of them. He admits, however, to being terrified of snakes, so any snakes that appeared in this house would indeed have to be dealt with by me.

Thinking over what he had said about spiders, he added that he would only be afraid of them if they were "six inches across and poisonous". I think in those circumstances I would probably be afraid of them too.

Louise

Why do some men feel more masculine with a feminine woman? For the same reason why a woman feels more feminine when she is with a maculine man, at least I do. To each their own.

Autumn