Can you tell a submissive woman?

Wouldn’t it be fantastic if we could spot partners from a distance?

Sometimes women say they “just know” whether a man is dominant: simply being with him is enough. But can a dominant man tell a submissive woman? Now, let me make it clear straight away that I know most Taken in Hand women do NOT think of themselves as submissive. Fair enough. I’m using that word because it means something to me: I know I’m attracted to submissive women, just as many of you are attracted to dominant men.

So, anyway – can we tell? Well, some people would say we’ve just got no chance, because we’re rubbish compared to women at judging what people are feeling and thinking just from observing them. And of course a pet hate of many men is the way women seem to be working out what we mean, rather than listening to what we say. Do they really see more than us? The results at this website suggest they’re no better in fact (do the ‘body talk’ test and see how much men and women agree) but even so, I think what men can find out by womanwatching is limited.

There are loads of books about non-verbal behaviour, and a few websites, but from what I’ve seen, not many say anything serious about submissive body language. Smiling a lot is often said to indicate a generally submissive attitude, for instance, as is standing or sitting in a way that takes up least space. Well, those things may be true, but as this unintentionally hilarious article suggests, it is difficult to tell supposedly submissive body language from the merely typically feminine. These kinds of behaviour might tell you something about a man; but not really about a woman, I think.

The “international sex and relationships expert” Tracey Cox gives some more specific hints in her book Superdate (it’s subtitled ‘how to be one, how to get one’ – see how hard I’m trying, ladies?). She says standing with legs crossed like blades of scissors is “a favourite for both men and women who are submissive and shy.” Okay, Tracey, I’ll look out for that one. She also reckons a woman who gives you a weak, fingertip handshake is “probably girly, traditional, and secretly considers men the superior sex.” Phew! Where did she get that from? She’s got a tip about telling who’s in charge in a relationship by seeing how a couple hold hands – the dominant partner’s palm faces backwards, apparently, which makes sense to me as I always hold hands that way – but of course you have to get hand-holdy with your woman before that one’s any good.

What about clothes, then? This is the area where I think men like me who have definite preferences in female dress – oh, all right then, male fetishists – risk leading ourselves badly astray. Sure, I like women in skirts and dresses, and lots of women who would like to meet a dominant man will wear only those things. But you only need to look at any of the forum topics here about women’s appearance to know that many a Taken in Hand woman wears nothing but jeans. Oh, well.

So, what are we left with? You’re left, to adapt something Hera said in this thread, with the “test and take” approach. Or, well, I wish I were quite as confident as that. I think my own strategy is more “test, talk and take”: the testing is the stage where you gather the information to judge whether there’s any reasonable prospect that the woman opposite might react positively to your talking honestly about your needs. All the time you’re thinking how nice the taking will be, of course.

Hang on, though – the good news is that sometimes women really, really help you at the testing stage, by telling you exactly what they’re like, or as good as. Not directly, of course, but in a way they think is unmistakeable. A woman I know, who’d be difficult to describe as submissive (see, I know you aren’t all like that) had a favourite response whenever I said I’d like to, say, eat Indian that night, or go the theatre rather than a concert. “You’re the man”, she’d reply – and that would be that. It was the first indication, but I think a clear one, that she liked to be with a decisive man.

Any time a woman gives me a clue that she’d like me to decide things, my ears prick up: Englishsubrose (a woman who I think is proud to call herself submissive – rightly so, I say, submissive women are just the best) said in the Yahoo Group that when she was younger, if faced with a range of options she used to say to men: “you decide”. I don’t think this kind of thing is absolutely foolproof – there may be women who just like you to do the work for them, and think no more of it. But on the whole I reckon it is a pretty good clue that you may be with the kind of woman you want.

Another woman I once knew was on the surface everything you would call “submissive”. She was quiet, always; she’d never interrupt, never speak loudly. She was socially conservative, and dressed in a manner that reflected that; and although a successful professional, she was reluctant to do anything involving self-projection or attention – speaking in public, for example. She was also a serious reader of romantic fiction, for what it’s worth – since then, I’ve always wondered how much or how little of a clue that is.

Anyhow, we worked in a barristers’ chambers, and one day I entered the library to find her just inside the door, blocking my way, and on her knees in front of the bookshelves, scrambling for a law report – an action utterly typical of a young barrister. What was more remarkable was that as I entered and she took notice of me, of her own position and the fact that we were alone together in that room, she made not the slightest motion to move. She stopped what she was doing and spoke to me – more confidently than she ever had before – and flirted, frankly, for a long time, all the while remaining insistently on her knees, only a foot away from me.

I know it sounds like an erotic fantasy, but you’re right if you’ve guessed I had an affair with her – sometimes, I’m very glad to say, life can be like that. That taught me that sometimes a woman will do what she can to show you how she feels, and take it mercilessly. So, at the risk of labouring the point: if you can, give her a chance to show her submissiveness, and if she takes it, pay attention.

Right, okay: we’re back to the test, talk and take thing; and it’s the testing bit we’re on about. Test her by trying some mildly dominant behaviour – if she’s in doubt about what to eat on your date, think of Englishsubrose, and let her know you’d be happy to decide! Speak to her about social issues like feminism, and pick up clues about how traditionally she thinks about male-female relations. Do the cheesily obvious, and tease her by threatening a spanking – see how your date either turns frosty (yes, it’s horrid, but also funny, and anyway a self-styled alpha male is supposed to be able to cope with that kind of stuff), or else gets hotter and hotter! “Promises, promises!” was a response I got once to a threat like that – promising indeed, you might think, and I did too.

If you get to the kiss stage, that’s where you can really show her what kind of man you are. Not a question of being rough of course, or of trying to make things go faster than she wants. No: just show her there’s a type of kiss she’s never had before, a distinctly masculine kiss that grabs her hair and her throat and overwhelms her. Then very, very soon you can tell her exactly what you’re like, and that if she likes, she can have more of it.

Carl

Take the Taken In Hand tour

Have you seen the following articles?
Is she afraid of losing control? Topping from the bottom?
What if your wife feels scared and vulnerable?
How should a woman dress?
Dealing with a man who doesn't do as he's told
Liberated through submission
Could you be a slave, owned, property?
I'm so lucky to have found the right man
An overview of Taken In HandTaking her in hand is not a contact sport
Leadership, strength, emotional intimacy
Is spanking always sexual?

2006 Jul 29 - 04:16 | add new comment | latest article | previous article | next article |

Spotting Submissives?

Carl, when you say a "self-styled alpha male is supposed to be able to cope with that stuff," just how do you mean that in relation to a woman who becomes frosty when you suggest a spanking is in order? Surely you wouldn't be thinking of going forward without her consent?

Some of the behaviors you describe could show submission but I have to wonder about jumping to conclusions. There are times when my husband and I are going back and forth about what to do and I'll say, "well, make a decision!" That's not because I am submissive but because I'm tired of making them all the time.

On the other hand I would never have said to a man on a first date, "You're the man, you decide." And if someone grabbed my hair when kissing me, he wouldn't have gotten to kiss me again.

"Pat"

by a Taken In Hand reader on 2006 Jul 29 - 14:54 | reply to this comment

Dominant man wanting strong dominant woman

What I like is to dominate the most dominant, strong woman. A submissive woman is of no interest to me unless she is very dominant and if she describes herself as submissive she likely won't be of interest to me.

Bill

by a Taken In Hand reader on 2006 Jul 29 - 14:55 | reply to this comment

That's interesting to me. Me

That's interesting to me. Men have said that before on this site, and many woman here take pride in the fact that they are "alpha females." It just seems to me that it would make a relationship so difficult--like you would always have to fight to be in charge.

I would describe myself as submissive. I like the feeling that there is someone out there who is bigger and stronger than I, and who has my best interest at heart. Someone who feeds me with his strength, who wants me to be his woman. I'm able to be tough, but I don't want to have to be tough with him. With him, I just want to be able to be me.

Being an alpha-submissive just seems like it would be so exhausting. I don't know how they do it.

by cj on 2006 Jul 29 - 18:25 | reply to this comment

You can tell a takeninhand woman, but you can't tell her much ;)

I don't think being takeninhand material shows in body language. I'd prefer a Taken In Hand relationship, but if you saw me at work you'd swear I wanted to be in control in a relationship. In fact, I know rumors to that effect circulate about me. Like many Taken In Hand women, when I shake hands my grip will match yours, unless you give me a weak handshake, then mine will overpower you. I stand so as to take up as much space as possible, with my feet about shoulder-width apart, and my hands on my hips. I look all men straight in the eye whether we're having a serious discussion or just joking around, including our President, and I'm known for being the last person to say what someone wants to hear. I've argued with my supervisor (who says I work for him, but the truth is he works as much for me as I do for him) and with our VP when I felt strongly about my position, and I win those arguments, not because I have to be right all the time, but because my argument is well reasoned. (I'm not a prima donna, or a spoiled brat, I take pride in doing a job most men won't do, and doing it exceptionally well, and I have earned their respect in doing it.) I try to help my co-workers wherever I can, simply because I know that it's in everyone's best interests.

If you approached me when I was on my knees for some reason, I certainly would not feel embarrassed or obligated to stand.

Quietness can be less a sign of being open to being controled in a relationship and more a sign of introversion; allowing someone else to make decisions may just be a "strength theme" identified by the Gallup organization as "Adaptability" (which scores as my #4 theme). A person with adaptability may not have a strong preference for any particular activity because they know they will enjoy any activity, and so they tend to defer to those who have stronger preferences. (It would be possible for a highly adaptable take-charge person to defer to a less adaptable person preferring to be controled in a relationship.)

Threatening a spanking as a way of testing the water would meet with varied reactions, I've been known to say "I don't think so", "Whatever" (rolling eyes), "Yeah, right", and "I might like that" depending on my mood. (I celebrated a birthday this last week, and was threatened with birthday spankings.) And although I would never allow a co-worker to touch me that way, I certainly have allowed romantic interests to put me over their knee.

My best advice if you want to know whether a woman will respond positively to a Taken In Hand relationship is to watch her response to being cherished, because when we feel truly safe, loved, and cared for in every sense we will allow our most protected selves emerge.

by Anna Grace on 2006 Jul 29 - 19:42 | reply to this comment

Spanking

Threatening a spanking and seeing how she reacts is a very good idea, a number of men tried that one on me when I was young, and got the "promises, promises" response, or something similar.

Mind you, even that isn't fullproof. There were a couple of men who gave me a cue and for some reason I didn't pick it up, I wanted to but both times shied away, my inhibitions getting the better of me. I don't know why I should have turned shy on those occasions, one of them in particular was someone I found very attractive. Ah, opportunities missed!

Louise

by Louise C on 2006 Jul 29 - 20:05 | reply to this comment

Grabbing Hair

One of the most memorable kisses I have of my partner, early on, is when he kissed me and his hand tightened the back of my hair near my neck. This was about him, the strength of the passion he was feeling and by his action, I enjoyed it all the more. Hair pulling, no. Hair passion, oh yes!

by a Taken In Hand reader on 2006 Jul 29 - 20:34 | reply to this comment

Moi

Not quite sure how to comment on this (and "Hera" on here is also me, englishsubrose which is not very helpful - can't remember why the names ended up different, erhaps I found that Hera was some kind of dominant Greek woman but was too late to change it.... anyway)...

That was interesting, Carl. For women the risk is you find someone domineering (but not even sexually dominant) rather than dominant.

I wouldn't use your feminism test, however because I'm a submissive feminist and I would never say "you're the man" because I strongly believe a lot of women are dominant, a lot of men submissive and most people neither one nor the other and that you and I are just one little subgroup of man kind who are into D/S/Taken In Hand so if that is so a suggestion that men in general decide is wrong.

How can you tell a woman is submissive? I read a book by a US lady last summer who dressed as a man, lived like a man. Fascinating the differences particularly in body language, assertion etc. even differences between non-submissive women and non - dominant men.

I think in some ways the best way is just to get on line and make submission/dominance your key requirement as it cuts out all the rest of the time wasting but in the real world I agree with most of the things you said to test a woman/girl. Throwing in innuendo about spankings lightheartedly in mixed company and judging the reaction of the various women there might help, depending if that's appropriate. I'd like to devise a D/S DNA test I can apply to the air a man breathes out or his skin as I walk down the road or my mobile could bleep when I pass the right man.... in the absence of that one just tries to observe. The confidant sexual predator/philanderer can have dominance characteristics so if you want a monogamous dominant man as a woman you need to avoid them as well.

I would say it's much easier as a man because you have a licence to be forward/speak to women. If you're a woman and particularly if you're a submissive woman you aren't really in a position to be initiating things. Instead you hope to be noticed whereas the dominant girl is the one likely to get more attention.

(and on Bill's point that just semantics for me. I am probably what he would regard as a strong woman but I've always been very sexually submissive and submissive with men, alpha female who goes very beta with the right man; but sub is a good label for me as I mostly haunt BDSm sites when I'm not being alpha in the real world)

by Hera on 2006 Jul 29 - 22:38 | reply to this comment

Spot a taneinhand type woman - not likely....

I found your story amusing; we women are hard to figure out. (Smile)
I am difficult to read because I am strong and independant. I would only show my responsiveness to control to a gentleman who had my trust and attention.

Notice I said gentleman: there are many men in this world but only a few that can carry the title. In my opinion, he is a well-mannered and considerate man with high standards of proper behavior.

I watch for the gentleman, a distinguished, confident, a positive master manipulator. He is always in control even when angered and this gentleman will take action and follow through on his word.

He who could take me in hand verbally is definitely on his way to a sexual and physical connection.

by Kani on 2006 Jul 30 - 02:27 | reply to this comment

The dominant submissive woman

Maybe some women do not give off those telltale submissive signs....wearing dresses, skirts etc and acting all passive and girly....and are they truly tell tale signs anyway? Those are only outward displays....and true submission lies within the heart and soul.

I cannot think why a woman would want to try and attract a man by BEING a partcular way outwardly before she knows that he is worthy of her submission....this in my experience just leaves a woman open to abuse.

Most single women these days, submissive or not have to run their lives in a responsible and effective fashion....they have to be tough and strong and somewhat dominant in order to keep sane and get by ....it takes time to break down those walls that have built up...a good, emotionally mature man surely would not expect her to change all this overnight.....??

The submissive soul is far more giving and vulnerable than is suited to this cold and calculating world we live in....she has to protect herself at times from opening herself to men who are emotionally lazy or irresponsible.

To my mind....a truly dominant man will see through her shell as he gets to know her and slowly build the trust that will allow her to bring down the walls.

It is a fine balance....and it takes work and desire from both parties.

by Seekingmy truth on 2006 Jul 30 - 12:38 | reply to this comment

You never know

It was a nice read, but I really don't think you can tell about those things in advance. Repeatedly, guys who to me seem very dominant in they're conduct turn out not to be, and even turn out to be submissive. It's just wishful thinking I guess.

by a Taken In Hand reader on 2006 Jul 31 - 00:56 | reply to this comment

Feminine and submissive

I love to wear dresses, short skirts, high heels, lip gloss, jewelry... I love shopping, gossiping, cooking, and all sorts of other typical ‘girly’ things. But I am independent, strong-willed, outgoing, and potentially stubborn. In addition to these traits, I am also extremely submissive, both in and out of the bedroom. I want and need a powerful, decisive man to be in control of me. And I am lucky enough to have been found by just such a powerful, decisive man. It is true that it takes balance to make it work. If I was a quiet, mousy, compliant doormat of a woman, I doubt he would be so deeply interested in me. Just because I have a strong personality, doesn't mean my submission to him is not complete and whole-hearted. Despite my feminine appearance and tendencies, just by looking at me I don’t think it is obvious that I am submissive. But certainly after spending just a moment with him and me together, it would be clear that I belong to him.

by lex on 2006 Jul 31 - 03:12 | reply to this comment

If Mike had Tested Me...

Carl,

This is pretty interesting. I'm wondering what would have happened if Mike had tried some of these things on me. I doubt he or anyone would have considered me very submissive, although the word does have some meaning for me now in my personal relationship with Mike, I doubt he would have thought I was the least bit submissive until I brought it up.

I would have failed the feminist test, because I still am a feminist. I would have failed the let him decide what I should eat. I would have been insulted if he had tried to order for me, although I now find it pretty sexy. I might have passed the rough kissing, although I might very well have reacted by pulling his hair back.

These things you mention I find very sexy now, and react to them in a way that shows that I do very much enjoy being submissive. I think that I needed the right man to bring these things out for me. Although as my title suggests I do wonder what my real reaction might have been. I only now can speculate since when I met Mike neither of us considered these things. Who knows for the right man, done in the right way I might very well reacted submissively.

Take care,
Tevemer

by Tevemer on 2006 Jul 31 - 19:47 | reply to this comment

I did not know I was submissi

I did not know I was submissive until I met a man that was lovingly dominant.It was only after he had made me feel cherished,loved,nurtured and cared for that I felt submission.Feeling submissive wasn't something I had yearned for,indeed I wasn't aware I COULD feel like that.I think feeling like that can only occur if the man displays at the very least the qualities I mentioned.Similarly so if a man is inconsistent and fails to maintain a lovingly dominant relationship and those qualities disappear then so will the feeling of submission.I have learnt I cannot choose to be submissive,rather it is something that is naturally drawn from me if the man IS consistantly dominant.

by a Taken In Hand reader on 2006 Aug 1 - 08:45 | reply to this comment

Didn't know it myself for years

Recognizing that I have submissive tendencies just didn't surface until recently. I probably would've failed the tests you mentioned years ago. Now that I've acknowledged and better understand what I want, there's a chance I'd give off some signals of it should I ever find myself dating again (hopefully this won't happen as I've been happily married for over 10 years!). But as most people see me as a leader-type, unless a man really started to get to know me over a longer period of time, I doubt he'd guess my submissive leanings. And I would probably only really show them in a long-term relationship where I'd built up love and trust in my SO, feeling that he'd earned my respect and submission.

If what you're looking for is a romp in the bed with a submissive woman and she with a dominant man, I would imagine both parties' signals would be stronger as the goal would be much more immediate, but that type of thing has never interested me.
Lucy

by Lucy Ellis on 2006 Aug 1 - 13:27 | reply to this comment

Don't worry, Pat

I didn't mean you should go ahead without consent; I was just saying an supposedly alpha male should be able to cope with mild embarrassment and rejection, that's all. And I agree with the comment about 'hair passion'... that's just the kind of thing I meant!

by Carl on 2006 Aug 1 - 19:13 | reply to this comment

I'm a very strong, dominant woman

I'm a very strong, dominant woman who wants to be controled by the right man. My ideal man controls me very tightly, closely and forcefully. I need to be owned by him, bound by him, tamed, taken in hand and controled by him. In his control, I find freedom. But would I call myself "submissive"? No way. That's what sets Taken In Hand apart from "dominance and submission". Taken In Hand women are not submissive. We're strong, powerful women that therefore need a man who's even stronger and more dominant than we are or he won't be able to handle us.

by a Taken In Hand reader on 2006 Aug 23 - 16:26 | reply to this comment

Can you tell a submissive woman?

Good, thought provoking, yet humourous article Carl. It took my thoughts along these lines. I have spoken to many self-professed "submissive" women in life, and I doubt whether any two of them would agree on precisely what "submissive" is. At the end of the day your article highlights a valid point. How reliable are labels anyhow? People are people at the end of the day, and I would offer the thought that maybe the real meaning of terms like "submissive" and "dominant" lies in the unique dynamic that grows between two people, rather than being a universally experienced "given". This is not intended as a criticism of your article, but a personal obervation of what it suggests to me.

by JamesR on 2006 Oct 17 - 23:13 | reply to this comment

I still think labels help to some extent

People are different with different people too, but I still think labels help to some extent just as a label "gay" or "male" helps when we decide who we might want.

by Hera on 2006 Oct 20 - 22:12 | reply to this comment

intellectually dominant, personally very obliging

I have a lifelong problem with men in that I am very intelligent and a completely independent thinker. I tend to dominate book discussions and come out on top in academic work. Many men find this intimidating, and I can't and don't turn it off in order to please them. Nobody can tell me what to think.

On the other hand, I can't insist on anything I actually want. Pizza toppings? Where to eat out? What to wear? What movie to watch? I can't stand up for myself at all. I don't want to. I seem to have it built into my personality that if someone loves me, they will give me what I want, and if I have to insist, it just hurts my pride and I won't do it.

Take-charge men get surrounded by yes-men too easily. My man can tell me what to do, but not what to think. So if I agree with him, he knows he can trust it because if I didn't agree with him, I'd tell him flat-out. He is strong and confident and really likes this.

Could anyone tell all this on a first meeting? I think he did. I don't take up much space when I sit or walk. I have a soft voice and look delicate, with tiny hands/wrists and baby hair. I am very flexible in what I want, and I look grateful if someone opens a door or carries something for me.

Arete
first-time posting

by Arete on 2006 Nov 9 - 22:28 | reply to this comment

Softness can be hidden beneath a strong, take-charge exterior

Carl, I don’t know where to start and can’t stop laughing over your article. Have you been talking to my boys? These sound like their sorts of questions in high school. No matter what the age, men are confused by women. Of course it might be because we are complex creatures who never follow a guideline in how to act or think. We have a constant flux of emotions, many times hormone driven and will screech like a banshee or cry a river at the drop of a hat. It is no wonder you poor males have such a hard time figuring out who and what we are. My deepest sympathies!

Every woman has her strengths and her weaknesses. Some of us have more powerful strengths than other women and those are what I personally classify as “alpha” traits. In the wolf pack it would be the female that had become the mate of the strongest male. She is his complement and helpmate and had to be just as strong and fierce as the prime male to keep the pack and their pups safe. In our world, it is much the same.

I consider myself an alpha female but like most strong willed women, I have a very soft, very vulnerable spot inside me that I protect like a tigress. Only the man strong enough to fight the tigress will be allowed to see and touch it. For the right man, I can be as soft as a church mouse. I can relax and let the responsibility of our home life be his. I can bow to his wishes in most things (as long as I have some input) and will do as he instructs. I do not deny this part of myself any more than I do my stronger parts. This is who I am, what I am. I just do not know how to tell you how to find us.

What works for me is a man that will look me square in the eyes while talking to me and not flinch or look away when I match his stare. This is the FIRST sign of a take-charge man I will search for. You would not believe how many assertive men cannot do this simple thing. I do not like men who try to hide what they are. I want to know what makes you tick as much as you do me. I want to hear your views, your dislikes as well as your likes, what you plan for the future, how you want to get there. I want to see the real you.

Having been out of the dating game for 30 plus years, I am starting to learn again myself. It is hard for the single man to do this. It is nearly impossible for a single woman my age. I am having to learn about men’s body language and that has got us girls just as frustrated as you men. If you have suggestions I know I am not the only one interested in hearing them. I guess what I am saying is that the woman you are seeking comes in all sizes, makes and models. Some are obvious, most are not. Most women that seek a take-charge man need to feel trust bone deep to be able to give up all control. If there is not enough trust, no matter how inherently “submissive” she might be, she will never let you know. Be honest and open with us, learn to trust your gut feelings or instincts. I have a feeling you have been more right than you know in the past about the women you search for.

And if all that fails, you could use my own personally philosophy: “If at first you don’t succeed, shoot the b******, then hunt down a new one.”

Libby

by Libby on 2008 Aug 20 - 21:05 | reply to this comment

Hi Bill

Okay, I have started to respond to you several times now and cannot get the right words out. I guess what I really want to say is that it is good to have men out there who are not threatened by a dominant woman, because as I can attest to, sometimes we cannot help it. It may not be what we want but it just happens.

by Isa on 2009 Sep 12 - 19:52 | reply to this comment

Not all women know what they want!

My experience with the whole Taken In Hand concept has been very similar to Lucy Ellis (above).

I always considered myself very independent and always pushed myself to be an equal to the men in my life. And while I never really had the same interest in boats or cars as my immediate family members, I did just as well (if not better) academically.

It's taken ten years with my current partner (and only 1.5 of those years married) to find-out that I do, indeed, have submissive tendencies after all. It's definitely taken some maturing on my part, and persistence on the part of my husband, with whom I have head-butted on many occasions! We're both just so stubborn. Typical, huh?

I never would have reacted to the dominant "bait" in the original post the way many other women did (or might). Actually, I would have been completely horrified and ended the date right then and there! Personally, establishing a solid relationship and friendship with my husband over the past decade has really drawn this submissive behaviour out of me, in the best way possible. And I think this is the case for a lot of women out there, in that they don't always know what they want until they're in a relationship that allows them to grow into and develop a comfortable and pleasing dynamic with their partner. For me, being classed as "submissive" in terms of our marriage would previously have been a massive insult. Things have changed since then, obviously!

In our relationship, finding this site, and then reading through 'The Surrendered Wife' (secretly, of course!) really helped me better understand the mechanics of it all. And knowing there's an online community of others who feel the same way as me really has lent credibility to my recent feelings, which I always felt were not consistent with our current society's norms.

I think if both partners are on the same page, and it's meant to be, that dynamic will eventually evolve even if it's not there to begin with.

by hvanos on 2010 May 30 - 01:29 | reply to this comment

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.