Jeff, the problem is that you might find a woman who passes all these tests but she STILL may not want to be Taken in Hand. Take me for instance. I am not one to make a fuss if a man wants to open a door or help me on with my coat. I think that's just a sign that he was trained as an old-fashioned gentleman, and in no way do I equate it with (1) him being a nicer person than a man who does not, or (2) his having an intention of taking control of the relationship.

So all you can tell from test #1 is that she is not affronted by old-fashioned manners. This doesn't tell you she is submissive, doesn't tell you she wants you to be HOH and make the decisions for both of you, and it certainly doesn't tell you that she wants to be disciplined.

Test #2, getting her used to your touch, is also no indicator. Any vanilla man will do the same thing, hold her hand as they walk down the street, put an arm around her shoulders, touch her face or her hair when they talk. So what? If she's at all attracted to you she will allow you to touch her and she might even reciprocate. Again, you haven't learned anything about whether she wants to be Taken in Hand.

Finally, Test #3: kiss her or hold her as if you have a right to. Well, it doesn't take a submissive woman to be annoyed with a man who is too afraid of his own shadow to go ahead and kiss her. If she objects, she can speak up and say so. I know when I was single, my rule was, if a man asked if he could kiss me, I made a point of saying no. It was a punishment for not having the guts to go ahead and do it and see whether I was pleased or not.

So I would pass all three of your tests, but I can assure you, the first time you thought you would exercise that control and tell me what to do or apply some discipline because you didn't care for my attitude, you would find out I have no interest whatever in being Taken in Hand.

"Pat"

I agree that none of these things would be indicators that a woman wants a Taken In Hand relationship, I suppose the most one could say is that if a woman accepts you doing things like this for her then it could mean that you needn't entirely rule out the possiblity that she might be amenable to Taken In Hand. If she doesn't object to you doing things for her, kissing her without asking etc, then she at least isn't entirely hostile to a man taking the lead in certain ways.

I've never had any particular feelings about the door opening/helping on with coat thing, I mean I never thought of it as a sign of dominant behaviour, but I've never felt any revulsion about these things either. I think it's pretty silly to sit in a car waiting for a man to open the door for you, but it wouldn't actually disgust me if my husband wanted to do this. I suppose this indicates a certain malleability on my part.

I've just been re-reading Florence King's 'Confessions of a Failed Southern Lady' and here is how she felt about these things back in the 1950s.

I already knew I hated dating on general principles, but now I compiled a dossier of specific resentments that I had never articulated before. I saw how dating chipped away tiny pieces of a woman's self-confidence; piece by piece, date by date, she was diminished by some form of unnatural behaviour forced on her by social usage. The most hateful custom was sitting serenly in the front seat of the car while the boy ran around to open the door. It made me feel like a cripple. Staring into space with an air of utter detachment while he paid the check made me feel like a schizophrenic deadbeat. Crossing a street and having a boy make a quick run behind my back to get on the outside again reminded me of the switcheroo tricks Charles Boyer played on Ingrid Bergman in Gaslight, and when a boy gripped my arm just above the elbow as we walked, it felt like a citizen's arrest.

Now that's a woman who definitely doesn't want a Taken In Hand relationship!

John, I like what you have written here for discussion. It takes a certain confidence and knowing in a man to be willing to step in to a woman's space and to be able to judge accurately how many steps in to take at a given time. I found this personally intriguing when my man did not back off from me while our relationship was beginning. I didn't have any clue, what he was doing was exactly what I needed to break down high walls of defense I had. And it also told me that he had the type of strength inside that I want in a man. Any man can lose interest and walk away. It takes a special man to keep pace with the development of a relationship and to sometimes help nudge it just a bit. Oh, and I should add, he still doesn't back off and that keeps my mind intrigued.

Every woman has her preference, I personally appreciate good gentlemanly manners of doors being opened for me. It can seem a bit uncomfortable until one gets used to it and then you feel very special. It's something you just need to relax in to and enjoy, these small gifts of honor that men do for women.

Smitten

I wouldn't say that your ideas are without merit, I would just not think that a woman who accepts these kind of attentions is necessarily wanting a Taken In Hand relationship. She might just see them as old-fashioned courtesies. I would think that a woman who decisively rejected these kind of gestures would be someone who most likely is NOT amenable to a Taken In Hand relationship, not because I see these things as being signs of dominant behaviour, because I don't really see them like that, but because I would think a woman who rejected them would be someone who was not amenable at all to having things done for her or being 'guided' in any way. I wouldn't personally be disturbed if a man did these things for me, I would be slightly irritated by the car door thing, but otherwise I don't think I'd see them as anything other than slightly uncommon gestures of civility.

I simply do not know how a man indicates that he wants a Taken In Hand relationship, or how a woman indicates that she wants one, other than by saying so. I always used to get a pleasurable thrill if my husband was firm with me about something, but he didn't do it very often in our pre-Taken In Hand days, usually about something quite small and unimportant, and although I used to respond positively when he did, it didn't seem to occur to him that if he tried doing it like that about the things that he really cared about, that might work too. Nor did it occur to me that he was capable of doing it as a consistent thing.

Perhaps if a man wants a Taken In Hand relationship he could try exercising a little firmness about things that are important to him, and see how she responds. I don't know why I never said to my husband "I like it when you're like this; why don't you do it more often?" I was just too inhibited. I suppose I would also say to a man, "Does she like you being dominant in the bedroom?" If she is turned on by forcefulness in bed, then maybe she'll like it outside of the bedroom too. The one area I never had any confusion about was my sexually submissive nature, so that might be somewhere to start.

The only way I could indicate to my husband that I wanted a Taken In Hand relationship was by telling him outright. Some men just can't take a hint.

Louise

Jeff, I applaud you. I think you've done a wonderful job describing the role of potential HOH. I have often observed women who are 'hoping' to someday meet the dominant man of her dreams. And of course, by saying that, means what is right for HER. So how would she go about doing that? Asking questions? Testing perhaps? Or, as you suggest, simply get to know each other.

What you are describing is simply laying a foundation of a relationship. You are paying attention. Focusing on your girl. You are sensing the nuances or perhaps lack of for finding what you are looking for.

How can there be a downfall with that method. Time spent learning and knowing will benefit you both for understanding. Finding love, like and attraction. Which is the basic of any long term relationship. This is not a 'test'. This is seeking and finding.

Sure, after reading your article lots of women will say 'it was good until you...and fill in the blank of whatever'. But never did you say this was a test. This was finding out.

I myself never had one idea I was submissive. In fact I am the least submissive woman you'd meet. Except to my husband. To whom I am completely submissive. And how did he find out?

He talked to me. He watched, observed and probed. He loved me. He created a bond of trust. And he worked his way into my head until I needed him and fell head over heels in love right back at him.

I for one say bravo to you. The right woman will appreciate and come to admire the tactics you used to learn and love. You payed attention and how can that ever be considered anything but positive and clever.

...Blush

Blush, you put it so perfectly.