--) I don't expect anyone to agree with it (--

Huh? You don't expect anyone to agree with it? Excepting specific references to one's wife or SO, this SHOULD be "Standard Operating Procedure" in ANY relationship with whom the man is involved; wife, lover, friend, or acquaintance.

You titled this "British Army Ethos", which implies a code of ethics which is REQUIRED behavior of ANY member of the British Armed Forces toward ANY "non-hostile person" with whom he has any sort of relationship, ranging from the casual greeting on up to the most intimate of relationships.

You have touched on the VERY reason for the generation of hostility in ANY relationship; namely, one party or both has chosen to ignore or devalue one or more of the items in your "Ethos" list.

In short, this is NOT simply "British Army". This is standard expected behavior in ordinary human interaction. It is behavior that is, or should be, taught from birth.

Sadly, too many folk choose to ignore such civil conduct. "British Army Ethos" is far too often discarded in favor of "ethics" which are FAR less civilized.

Mike Starre

--) I stated that I did not expect anyone to agree with it (--

I hate to burst your bubble, but I **DO** expect ALL to agree with it. Such is expected by BASIC Human Decency!

--) As for rules like this applying to all forms of life civilian or military I don't know, (--

You place me in a VERY odd position, that of seeming opposition between basic civility and expected military behavior. As YOU so eloquently presented it, WHY should there be ANY opposition? CIVILITY **IS** CIVILITY, and civil rules ALWAYS apply, REGARDLESS of the presumed author of such rules.

--) I learned these values when I joined the Army. (--

SSSSAAAAYYYY WWWWHHHHAAAATTTT?!?!?!?!? (excuse me for the moment, I am on the verge of passing out from the shock) (slowly recovering) (I seem to have collected my senses) (OK, I'm here now) !!!!WOW!!!! You learned these values SOLELY from the ARMY?!?!? TRAGIC that this was not taught you from birth, but even MORE tragic is the fact that MORE folk were not taught this from birth, NOT ONLY from the UK, but ALSO from my own US. I am THOROUGHLY **DISGUSTED** with the so-called "Modern Society" which seems Hell-Bent on the destruction of the MOST BASIC of human amenities.

I have nothing but disdain for government-initiated doctrines. For this reason it troubles me to NO END that I find no fault in your described "British Army Ethos". But what troubles me MOST is the fact you were not taught this from BIRTH. It TRULY sickens me that you had to be taught basic human decency from a government agency. THAT is SO **SAD**!!!!

Abdiel, please don't let this put you off writing articles for Taken In Hand. It was an excellent article, and made your point very clearly. It's AWESOME! Please write more!

Abdiel, it was not my intent to offend you. I take personal offense at the way most folk are raised these days, namely WITHOUT **ANY** sense of ethics at ALL. My shock was not because of the ethics listed in your article, but rather, it was directed at my *presumption* that your first exposure to such ethics was the British Army.

A further presumption fails to escape me, however. This entails the possible horrid reality that such ethics have greeted so *many* for the *first* time THROUGH the British Army or through the US Army. You may have been blessed by proper upbringing, but I have met far too many who have not been so blessed.

Heed the words of "The Editor" and ignore any offense with which I may have afflicted you.

Mike Starre

I certainly hope Abdiel's ethical rules of engagement in any personal relationship become the norm for men and women. I have a very strong opinion on the subject of how much easier relationships between men and women would be if men began with self-respect and women were taught to respect men. This should be basic training, Relationship 101, if you will. ;-)

As for men like Mr. Starre--I'm afraid this appears to be precisely the kind of over-emotionalism that indicates a lack of self-control. No matter how inaccurate impression Mr. Starre's exhausting *OVER-EMPHATIC* WRITING conveys, the "histrionics", as Improving Male called them, are undoubtedly off-putting to many female readers. Perhaps Mr. Starre is unaware of the negative effect such excessive use of capitals and other forms of emphasis has on any woman who is looking for sanity and stability in a man?

Most women who are serious about relationships seek a respectful man, one who knows what he wants from life, and is capable of attaining it without yelling, either on- or offline. This is why Abdiel's 'new' ethos (something I would consider a basic in all relationships, and notice how I didn't need to shriek to say that?) is mandatory.

Yet I would add one detail that this ethos doesn't address directly, and it reiterates a concern of mine: that the man practice the fine art of self-control, which is so much more appealing than being yelled at. A calm and quiet 'no,' sincerely meant and conveyed with conviction, has a power that all the shrieking, posturing, and fake attempts at 'being' dominating (as opposed to actually dominating), do not have. Or perhaps Mr. Starre's excessive use of capital letters and asterisks in his online writing is merely an unfortunate mistake of writing -- unfortunate because it gives a terrible and quite inaccurate impression of the writer, who may in real life be a model of calm, self-assured self-control.

Abdiel, thank you for writing this, and even more for your gracious response to all who commented pro or con. And what you set forth should be standard operating procedure in all our dealings with others in our lives. And even more so in a Taken In Hand relationship.

So, thank you, for being the kind of husband we all would want to have in our lives.

I smiled as i read one of your comments and you used the word "mate" ... as a very happy and satisfied Yank Taken In Hand wife to a wonderful Aussy "Mate," I can testify to the fact that many Aussie men treat their women based on this ethos.

One of the problem with the article may have been that, unacquainted with the military, some women viewed the writer as advocating an internal boot camp in which the husband was always the drill sergeant and the wife was the eternal recruit or plebe. That is not the case.

Instead, *Taken In Hand* provides a practical means by which men and women can use their complementary nature to settle their differences and strengthen their relationship. Perhaps the strongest unit possible is composed of two individuals working in harmony.

Of course, the opposite is also true. Division is only a step away from defeat in marriage - in this culture defined as divorce.

Whatever the code of conduct a man adopts, it must be compatible with the woman's views. In other words, it must ring true in her ears. It must also come from a man with an inner strength that comes from both knowledge and self-discipline.

Several years ago, a wife admitted that "a good spanking" would probably go a long way toward making her more respectful to her husband. At the same time, she was surprised that a man would understand how a woman thought about spanking. On the other hand, her spineless husband was clueless and she was not about to inform him.

A divorcee said she suspected she had made a mistake a few moments after calling her boyfriend an unprintable name that she had frequently used to taunt her former husband. There was something in his tone of voice that said he was more of a man than she could handle. Like many women faced with a determined man, she acknowledged that what followed was her first spanking since childhood.

Another wife said a light bulb in her life came on when her second husband popped her on seat of her clothes after she launched a verbal barb. Having watched her husband handle other problems, she finally initiated an explicit conversation with her husband. As she expected it resulted in her getting spanked for the first time in her life.

More recently, during an informal conversation with a frustrated young woman - who had given up on professional counseling - I suggested that she needed a paddling. After a thoughtful pause, she replied that she had been waiting for somebody honest enough to tell her the truth. A few days later, apparently after letting her fiancé do the necessary, she sent me a thank you note.

It does not take long in this world to discover that women are not nearly as averse to spanking as they are to an undisciplined man. Men wishing to take a woman in hand need to straighten out their lives first. Then, the rest is relatively easy.