Human alpha, beta, and omega males: the reality

The subject of social dynamics, male/female relations, and the alpha/beta/omega dynamic is something I have been studying actively for months, both in reading and in life experience. I decided to take this study up after having had many girlfriends but having recently noticed that I was being broken up with first quite a lot. I suppose I had lost my magic after having graduated college and gotten focused on my career. My interest in this subject has nothing to do with me wanting to hurt or manipulate women.

I can surely attest that there are in fact alpha and beta males in the human portion of kingdom animalia. I would say that any woman who denies this probably denies a good portion of her own emotions and sensuality as well.

The alpha male...The funny, often charming guy who can be at a party and hardly say a word, but his body language says everything. The guy who could most likely have sex with a good portion of the women, single or hitched, in attendance that very night (and of course no one would be the wiser).

On the other side, the beta male. He very well might be good looking, funny, etc., but after ten minutes or so in the presence of the alpha male he will try to break the alpha male's frame of mind. He does this by subtle jokes that seem innocent but are intended to degrade the alpha male's status in the eyes of others. If he is successful in making the alpha male lose his cool and take the “low road”, he himself might very well be take the alpha position, for the night at least. I have seen it and been on both sides of it too many times to deny its reality. After all, it is the alpha male's world and most of the people there are just players within it.

The beta male might also readily submit to the alpha male in a genuine fashion, however. The beta male will also willingly argue with other beta males in an attempt to make others think he is the alpha male. Little does he know that the alpha male is just grinning to himself on the inside at the whole spectacle much of the time, and the women the beta male wants are more embarrassed than impressed by the beta male's behavior. Beta males often also act nice in order to curry favor with women and the alpha males.

Then there are the omega males—generally the true nice guys... but also what we call “losers” Generally avoided, and the next day hardly anyone remembers they were even there. The guy who is almost guaranteed not to have sex that night, even if a women by luck takes a fancy to him, because his model of the world isn't such that he can take a girl home and just have sex with her if he so chooses.

This model I have just outlined is rigid and many of you will no doubt disagree with it. But there is a pecking order in life. The good news, at least, is that it isn't set in stone at birth: someone who is an alpha quarterback in high school can become a beta construction worker; and a beta or omega nerd in high school can become an alpha CEO later in his life.

And in the context of Taken In Hand—some natural alpha males who have hitherto let society fool them into thinking that Hollywood romantic beta behavior was what the world wanted of him, finally come around, as we have seen on this thread. There are many other permutations.

How has this insight changed things for me? Frankly, I no longer put women on a pedestal. I am still a gentleman. I open doors for women—hell, I open doors for men too, so it isn't a trick to curry favor. I now understand that women get attracted and have desire just as strong as that of a man.

My view is more realistic now... No scorn, no anger that my dream as a child of having a Hollywood romance may not happen—just realism. I am not the type of guy who wants to have sexual relations with every woman, but I have done experiments in pushing the envelope over the past 6 or 7 months. It has opened my eyes to the fact that the majority of women will do anything for what they perceive as the dominant male.

I have also started to understand social dynamics a bit better: I can see when people are trying to force me into a beta position. In the past I might not have caught it. I am cool and laidback and I wasn't really quick on the uptake, so to speak.

And this has been my realization: Men these days really aren't totally pussies at heart like they seem. They have merely been brainwashed into thinking this is the way to be.

Intuit

Take the Taken In Hand Tour

Comments

What happened to you personally?

Intuit, you said near the beginning of your post that you realised that there might be something in this idea when you noticed that several girlfriends had broken up with you. How has your current knowledge in this helped in that respect? What has happened to you personally? How have things changed?

the boss

What has changed in me personally

To respond to your question, what has changed in me personally...Frankly, I no longer put women on a pedastal..I am still a gentleman..I open doors for women, hell, i open doors for men too, so it isn't a trick to curry favor.

Basically I now understand that women get attracted and have desire just as strong as that of a man. The reality is that women, like men, are products of evolution. Men want to push their seed forward into new generations, and women want the seed from the best men..the men who garuntee that the children will grow up and also be able to "make babies"...On the other hand they also want a provider...Its no wonder than in the book "Sperm Wars", the author cites studies that over 10% of children call a man daddy, who is not their biological father ( and I do not mean adopted children )...

My view is more realistic now...No scorn, no anger that my dream as a child of having a hollywood romance may not happen...Just realism...I am not the type of guy who wants to have sexual relations with every woman, but I have done alot of experiements in pushing the envelope over the past 6, 7 months...It has opened my eyes to the fact that the majority of women will do anything for what they percieve as the dominant male. Of course men are no better...And this has been my realization: Men these days really aren't totaly pussies at heart like they seem...They have been brainwashed into thinking this is the way to be...And sometimes I still feel guilt for pursuing a woman just for physical pleasure...And with the hanful of women that I see on a regular basis, sometimes I still feel "phoney"...But the thing is they LOVE it..this is what they want, and each day I lose a bit more of what made me think I had to do things like buy roses, and gifts just to make her happy.

Sure those things are good to do, but it should not be done if the man does not WANT to do them...

I also started to understand social dynamics a bit better...I can see when people are trying to force me into a beta position...In the past I might not have caught it..See I am cool and laid back and I wasn't really quick on the uptake, so to speak....Fact is usually people do harm to you by pretending to be nice..not by being outright rude and mean...The cliche "fight kindess with kindess", though a rough analogy, takes new meaning here..."Take the high road"..etc...

regards,
Intuit

Alpha, Beta, Omega, Wha?

So is the sole goal of a man's existence to bag as many females as he can and cut as many notches as possible over the bedpost? Is a nice guy who doesn't get laid the minute he meets a woman a "loser?" Yeah...in the world of the sophomoric mentality.

This is not what relationships are about. Love and devotion don't hang on whether one is the most charismatic male in the room, and nice guys don't finish last with grown up women.

I have thought long and hard about what attracts me to a man, and it isn't being the most charismatic man in the room. That's superficial. If he hasn't got the character and depth to back it up, he is just fool's gold.

What really matters is what is inside a person when the yucky stuff hits the fan. Not how he can "make you behave," "take you in hand," etc. etc. That's great fantasy for when all is relatively well.

The best man I ever knew stood by my side when I went through cancer..even though he was struggling with a terminal illness himself. He gave me the last of his strength and was my best moral support. Once or twice he put his foot down with me about an issue but our relationship didn't revolve around that.

He risked his life to come out in a freezing rainstorm and be with me at the hospital when I was going to have a scary biopsy. Up until a few weeks before he died, he was on the phone with me every other day, cheering me up, making me laugh, and giving me his courage and his love...when he was the one who was dying.

That's a REAL man. I don't know if he was alpha, beta, or omega according to some arbitrary chart. That's the kind of strength and courage I look up to and the kind of person I'd like to model myself after. All this other stuff about who can get women to fall into his bed the fastest, pales into insignificance beside what this friend meant to me.

It is NOT 100% about pecking order or alpha, beta, etc.

I agree...it is NOT 100% about peckingorder..or alpha, beta, gamma, delta, lambda, zeta, whatever.....A whole lot of women have really strong character...character stronger than than what most men have...If you have fought cancer, as my mom did, you are one of these women.

I think think that naive women, and men are much more prone to the biological influences that make this alpha male/alpha female dynamic so attractive...I could get spiritual, and I think I'd be right in doing so, and say that life experience, joy and pain, is what allows us to break way from our evolutionary nature.

BUT.....At a baseline level the majority of people are still swayed by these relics of old..these archetypes....The strong sexy guy who can make strong sexy kids...the strong, righteous, nice guy who can provide for the lady and the kids...the "all in one" guy who has genes of steel and a heart of gold the sexy loving lady who can "make" a kid who will be successful in the world...

All of these things come in to play...In the past 2000 or so years the West has become increasingly femininized, that is to say men acting like "nice guys". Ask most women and they will say they want this, and they do on some level. And for many women of strong character, this is truly what they want, but in reality what most women want is to be provided for on the one hand, and to be able to "congregate" sexually with high status males...preferably with no one knowing...The ultimate dream of many women is to have both the provider and lover in one person, and sadly, society decided long ago not to train men to achieve this.

This is why so many ladies find a really nice boyfriend and then leave him and feel horribly about it. It is not her fault. It is not his fault. It is society's fault for fooling the guy into thinking that doing "wuss" behavior was the right thing to do (it is only right if you feel it is right). In the short term it may garner a smile, a kiss, a hug, or more, but do things like this make her feel secure in the long run? Do things like this make her feel secure that the children you gave her will be able to grow up and be strong and raise families of their own? No...these things have nothing to do with each other in my opinion.

Think about when you were just a child...hopefully it is a good memory...one of complete security....Modern relationships do not give this feeling for most couples, hence the above 50% divorce rate, and it is the duty of the man to fix this..I honestly believe this. I don't mean for him to be an abusive jerk..but to impress upon the women in his life that he is a strong man who can both protect them and give them children, and raise those kids, who will also be strong and make a impact, no matter how small, on this rock we call Earth.

Intuit

Absolutely

I quite agree that all that stuff about whether a man is alpha, beta, gamma, delta or whatever couldn't matter less, and I certainly wouldn't want the sort of man who was swaggering about pulling all these women (apart from anything else, fending off the competition would, I imagine, become very tiresome).

I absolutely agree that kindness, consideration, support etc is far more important than all that stuff, but, if you are the sort of person who craves a Taken In Hand relationship, you do want something a bit more complex than pure kindness. A man doesn't have to be a conceited ass obsessed with having power over women in order to be able to make you behave, if that's what you want. If he's doing it out of love, rather than simply out of a desire to wield power over you, then it can be very nice.

A man who is kind and in charge is very nice to have about the house: kindness and supportiveness, however nice, will not satisfy you completely if you hunger for something more.

Becoming the Alpha Male

I am just wondering if there are any techniques or things a man can do to develop the alpha male character. What is the process that he must take?

Thanks.

Alpha

You can not learn to become one or the other. It comes naturally. A man is born an alpha but all types are just as good.

I don't know. I've always pu

I don't know. I've always put a lot of faith in "fake it til you make it." If there are things that men you look up to do, start to do those things. I don't know that doing that will make you "alpha," but I don't see anything wrong with trying to become what you admire.

"What would X-alpha male do i

"What would X-alpha male do in this situation?" is a question I have asked myself when faced with difficulty before. With Successs..

changing the omega to alpha

"You can not learn to become one or the other." Do you think so? How about Napoleon Bonaparte or Adolf Hitler? They were born as Omega and they became Alpha..

we fear dying without knowing what we really could have been

First, this stuff about charisma defining alpha males is wrong. That's a symptom, and some people can fake it, but the genuine alpha is a creature of pure integrity, whether male or female, and would literally die or suffer horrific tortures or deprivation rather than betray their core principles or treasured friends. The enlightened of any society are alphas, and so are SOME of its rulers, but you will find more genuine alphas in monasteries, and getting along with each other too, than you will in a boardroom full of liars, cheats and thieves.

If you want to meet an alpha female, join radical political groups. If you want to meet an alpha male, a real one, go somewhere that no one really wants to go... a toxic fire, a dark alley in a dangerous neighbourhood. The alpha is the one who gets between you and that danger. Firemen. Good cops. Good priests, monks and social workers.

"I am just wondering if there are any techniques or things a man can do to develop the alpha male character."

Yes, there are. Don't listen to nonsense that says you can't. If it wasn't possible, how would nerds become CEOs? Why would jock engineers in university become such obedient drones once out in industry? Think about it.

I spent more time in my life in back alleys rescuing sad people from themselves or protecting them from others than I did in boardrooms. But when I walk into New York boardrooms I can command the attention of a billionaire for several hours. When I walk into Washington think tanks, I intimidate the assembled policy wonks, mostly because they know I am right (and have been proven right). When I walk into a film festival, I hear from friends later that I shocked the room when I walked into it. Everyone thought I was someone "important" in that industry. I'm not. But in early high school I was not visible. Something happened.

What happened? I was sucker-punched hard in the face. I was too shocked to move. Then I was hit again, so hard my glasses flew off. But I hadn't moved. When I noticed I was not affected, not in pain (that was luck), I knew I had power over the situation. I could have hit "back" (a concept I don't recognize) or called for some authorities or help. I didn't. I invited the fellow to take it all outside to avoid disturbing others watching, and I turned my back on him, and he obediently followed me out. Then, in a quiet talk in the stairwell, I explained to him that his standing in that group of people was now compromised, because he had been so rude as to punch me in the face in front of them, and now they'll think he'd do it to them next. He realized I was right, and I suggested that if he simply apologized to them, it might be as if it all had never happened. I was genuinely concerned for this fellow, who had no great brains, and whom we had made fun of, and whom we had caught cheating at poker a few times. He did exactly as I suggested, I smiled at him and nodded and sat down, determined to say nothing more.

I hardly had to. An aura of terror surrounded me from that moment on, and bullies ceased bullying whenever I was in sight. I had become an alpha.

"What is the process that he must take?"

You won't like it. Here it is, sketched out, as best as I can understand it:

1. Eliminate lies from your life. No liars for friends. No liars as employees or bosses or clients. No liars at all. If someone perjures you (lies in official documents or court) shun them, and shun everyone who deals with them. Make clear that "shun" means they are never, for the rest of their life, permitted to speak your name or seek you out or seek out your friends, and if they do, you will consider it an attempt to harm you bodily, and you will deal with it accordingly. Make absolutely clear that no "laws" will prevent retribution that exacts from them at least ten times more pain than they have caused.

2. Eliminate hyperbole, exaggeration, paraphrase, and any metaphor you cannot draw substantial insight from and would not use in teaching a child. Perjury is violent and requires a violent response. Lies are potentially violent, and sometimes require that, but not usually. Do not confuse attacks on your person with attacks on your character. Lies that direct violence towards you, even via the legal system, are attacks on your person and that of every single person that depends on you in any way. I do not see how you can be a "man" and tolerate any of it.

3. In person, speak as if you were testifying in court and would be immediately jailed if you were not speaking the truth. This will naturally mean you will speak much less and listen much more. If you feel you must comment on a topic on which you cannot speak authoritatively, then do your best to frame it with "my current feeling" or "this might be possible" or other things to make it appear as uncertain as it is. Write anonymously, avoid pseudonyms and take no pride whatsoever in knowing or being right—but seek out aggressively anyone who can show you wrong.

4. Build a cult of integrity around yourself—have very regular conversations with friends about all the above, and set common limits and tolerances, develop policies in common about how to deal with misbehaving friends, even girlfriends.

5. Don't make major decisions on the basis of sex and sexual happiness. Among friends, make clear that sexual desire isn't a good reason to associate with people of low integrity, and be strong with yourself. They might smell great, but that doesn't make them your best friend. Remember that well. Your friends are those who share your values and act to protect them. You may find it necessary to join churches or political parties or charities in order to find real friends, the kind of people who devote themselves to the common good. Those who care about possessions, ownership, or being seen as "in charge" are losers. Forget them. The genuine alpha needs formal control of nothing, no titles, nothing but Gandhi's diaper and spinning wheel (um, yeah, Gandhi did in fact beat his wife and forbid her some medicines that he himself took, he might have been an "alpha minus"...).

6. Find people to follow and imitate and copy. Not to obey, but copy. Make sure they include lots of women, lots of people of different creeds and ethnicities. In fact you can count on the men to take credit and white men in particular, and you'll also hear about them on TV and in school, so the best thing to do is ignore them and focus on the people whose great deeds are written down in history. Learn about particularly exceptional people or unique cultures like the Spartans, Essenes, Mennonites or Penan. Explore the morality of different cultures. Find the core of it. Read all the greats (Confucius, Lao Tze, Buddha, Muhammad's hadiths, the Gospels including those disputed ones from Thomas, Mary and Judas). You will be devoting your entire life to learning, and to compassion, and service. Avoid mistakes that will cost you time. Know which of these people spoke most clearly to you, and do not be surprised if they had brown faces or worshipped elephant headed gods. Do you know how many women have saved their whole village or town in history? No one can ever know. You will not be the man who they had to save it from. You will be the man who brought up that daughter or taught that girl or married that wife and protected her from danger until that critical moment, which may come five minutes after you yourself are dead.

6a. Look for role models everywhere. Distinguish between noble and ignoble people by their behaviour towards those who are helpless, ignoring any other attributes they have. For instance, when Liz Hurley and Hugh Grant sued the London tabloids for lying about them, they donated the money to a reserve for chimps rescued from medical labs. That's noble, and if you can't compliment them for that, because you hate their movies or whatever, then you're losing integrity. People do what they can with what they have, and if you have fame and visibility, you do something useful with it. No whining about Bill Gates either, he's blowing the wad on stopping the world's worst diseases, and leveraging more money out of governments. That's noble. (It's not a good reason to use Microsoft OS, though ;-)).

Watch what they do. Forget what they say. Don't even hear it. And never scoff at them. Hypocrisy happens, and for good reason: we profess to more than we can possibly practice. And that means we have high goals.

6b. Pride yourself based on the high regard people who work FOR you have for you, not the high regard people who pay you money have, nor the high regard your bosses have, nor the public. Keep your name on your work or your company if you can, and back your people against their critics, even if you must correct them always in private.

7. When the day comes that the dishonesty and lies in your society is morally disgusting you, you must leave. Not necessarily the whole society, but your role in it. Then you must endure some lack of direction, some pain, and the loss of every single friend who is not really a friend. You will be left with only those who admire you for repurposing your life, and those will be your actual friends. You will make new friends who share your values. You will mesh them with your old friends, and you will make sure that they respect each other and are all in your cult of integrity.

8. You will specify a unique role in society that you can play, and you will devote yourself to fulfilling it. You may be an artist, you may be a police officer, you may be an engineer, you may be a street sweeper. It doesn't matter at all, nor does formal education, nor does fame.

What matters is that when someone stands in your way, your determination to achieve what you must achieve is going to melt away their will to resist you. You will not have to do more than stand, wait, and keep your eyes wide open. You will not be able to resist cracking a long slow smile. You might even sit down, lie down, or otherwise expose yourself to physical vulnerability. You will give the other a chance to depart. But if you need to have a conversation with "his" girlfriend, you will, because your motive will never be selfish or stupid or sexual. Fulfilling sexual relationships are a consequence of deep integrity, they can't come otherwise.

That is, the alpha can't come otherwise. Alpha sex, in particular alpha male—alpha female sex, is never casual.

9. Alpha males have no need to control women. They sprawl and dive on top of them. Alpha males don't mind that. I have gone to parties and found myself buried in women, literally piling on top of me. I did nothing but sit, and listen with deep interest and concern to each of them, and pleasantly engage their boyfriends with real interest. I wanted to meet men who wanted to meet the kind of women I sought out. They would be my colleagues. My 300.

9. When others don't understand, you must have a short list of easily comprehensible media references they may have seen, to explain to them the alpha male's attitude.

Here are just a few:

- In Rob Roy, the title character discovers that his wife has been raped by his enemy, whom he has just killed in an incredible sword fight, and is pregnant with his enemy's child. Despite his obvious shock, he says only "he'll be a fine swordsman, like his father", and embraces his wife so warmly that there is no question of any rejection of, or revenge on, her child.

- In 300 (just out), Leonidas is departing and his wife asks him what to do. He knows he is going to his certain death. He says "marry a good man, and have good children." This is what the historical Leonidas said.

- When Layman Pang reached enlightenment, he piled all his possessions on a boat, put them in the middle of the river, and sank it. When asked why he did not give those possessions away, he said only "they brought me nothing but misery—why would I wish that misery on others?"

- When her entire life has been crushed and the last of her childhood dreams dashed, Scarlett O'Hara, after she's lost Rhett, seemingly for good, says "after all, tomorrow is another day." And given her track record, you know she will do something with it that would be impossible for any other woman. Personally I think Rhett comes back. Where else is he going to find a woman like that?

- In the film "Kandahar", an Afghan woman is travelling alone to that city to try to see her sister who is very depressed living under the Taliban. Her determination is formidable, she is clearly a fearless alpha herself, and on the way she encounters a Black Muslim American who is devoting himself to diagnosing simple diseases among the villagers. He's no doctor: "The medical knowledge of an ordinary Westerner," he says, "saves lives here." They are both alphas obviously, and both Muslims, and there is no colour of sexuality in their relationship necessarily, because their causes do not allow for it at the moment. They could be killed however just for talking in private. They do it anyway.

To be blunt, if you believe you could settle for some "romance" or "relationship" less meaningful than the alpha-alpha marriages that films like this hint at, if you would actually enjoy living with some beta female, you probably aren't an alpha male. Alpha males play around because we get bored, not because we have to, or because circumstances don't allow us any permanent mate.

If you want to be an alpha male, you must be able to look at historical figures, male and female, and actually see yourself as someone of equivalent stature doing equivalent great things. Something really worth doing, not stupid notoriety stuff. And not "making" a lot of money. If that happens, it happens to enable a purpose. You notice how much more relaxed and happy Bill Gates is in interviews? That's because he found a good purpose. Think about it. All that money made him only edge and nervous and made him tell a pile of lies that you can read about in a 200+ page "finding of fact" from the US government in the Microsoft antitrust case. And finding his purpose relaxed him, gave him status with people who hated him once. So why not just go and find a purpose?

If you're an alpha male, every other male is your equal until proven otherwise, and they prove otherwise in only one way: low-integrity self-serving lying, whining and wheedling that gets them what they want in that moment. You get what they can't have, because you have what they don't. Well-earned backbone.

If you want an alpha-alpha relationship, watch out: the human alpha female is easily the most dangerous creature on this planet, and she carves through alpha males like bowling pins (Scarlett has no trouble doing this), but they have trouble knowing which ones will stand up even when the bowling ball hits. Those are the ones they keep. Those are the alpha-plus types, those who (like Rhett) go off to war only when the cause is truly lost, and they're truly needed.

If you want an alpha male—beta female relationship, yes, you might need an abstraction like Taken In Hand to tell her that you're of high enough integrity to be obeyed, since you would only ever issue an order to make your lives better, and the lives of everyone around you better. I'm not sure I want that, myself, I feel fine being alone too.

Alphas just don't need people. We want some people but don't feel pain if we can't have them. We are home in the wilderness. We don't fear death, nor pain very much.

We fear dying without knowing who we really could have been. Not done. Been. We seek women who fear dying without knowing what we really could have been, also.

we fear dying, etc.

Brilliant, simply brilliant. I can't believe it, LOL. I'm a fan of Ayn Rand and listened to her audiobooks some time ago. These men you talk about are the Hank Reardens, the Francisco D'Ancornias, the John Galts, the Howard Roarks, the Ragnar Danneskjölds, etc. I've always been a "soft guy", but I'm trying ;)

Great,

And btw, nothing wrong with Windows ;)

I personally feel it's a bit

I personally feel it's a bit foolhardy to make a big long list of what an alpha is. That's a big long list of what an alpha is "to you."

All people necessarily view things differently, because they are different people. So if someone doesn't follow your personal recipe for alpha-ness, I think it might be a little silly to automatically label them "not an alpha" because they don't fit your personal definitions.

Alpha, Beta, it's true.

There has been a lot of talk about the validaty of the beginning of this thread. The primary exception that people make, and with good reason, is that it matters more to be a good person rather than the dominant physical/social animal. The context may vary in that comparison. On the most basic level there is always an Alpha, Betas, and Omegas. As a 20's something man (boy really) this behavior and social dynamic is extremely obvious. Depending on who you have to compete with matters. The more physicaly, emotionaly, and intellectually appealing a man is the more likely he is to receive potentially sexual female attention. This is NO indicator of contemporary Western Cultures' ideal 'real man' (not man's man) doesn't help him find suitable women willing to date him. By following the footsteps of a REAL MAN (caring, passionate, loving, honest, responsible, sensitive, humble, strong, etc) has no benefit in meeting the opposite sex. The Alpha male will meet women more often.

The energy the environment receives from the Alpha (as everyone wants their attention) is what matter, not character.

Our primary assets are mental, not physical

Louise,

I want to understand why people can honestly say the idea of a hierarchy among people does not exist? Firstly lets make one thing very clear, it is NOT totally genetic, so why the objection? This is not a "you vs. them" type of thing.

A man can increase his status in the pecking order by being fit, and demonstrating that life doesn't push him around and that he has some amount of persuasive ability, be it physical or social, over others. I know that is simplistic and perhaps on face value seemingly crooked, but it is true.

A woman can do the same...you see in this new world our primary assets are mental, not physical, although good looks always help of course, and sadly looks are more important for a woman to have than a man (we can debate what does it mean to be "good looking" in another thread). And if you go to a party, a company function, a business meeting with at least a dozen or so people, the dominant ones, both male and female will eventually stand out and it will be almost unanimous among the poeple that they deserve that place...A second strata of people who are sociable and really for the "meat" of the congregation will rise also, and of course a third level comprised of people who may be the sweetest truly good people in the room, will emerge who have almost zero power in persuading the room to anything and swaying the atmosphere of the event.

This topic is not 100% germane to Taken In Hand but it is most definitely a corollary.

Just like when a man living in Hollwood sees a playboy centerfold walk by, even with his wife, he will look, when a women is at a social function and a guy arrives who seems to charm everyone, who everyone, men and women included, seem to want to impress, she will feel a surge of her own for him often. Now certainly not every woman is like this...many women will detest a guy like this simply because of who is, like many misogynistic men will dislike good looking women....

This is no condemnation...In fact this is somthing to rejoice! Women are now able in this time to say what they really want from a man.

So we have 3 basic types of men that men are trying to be, even if failing miserably.

1. The devoted nice guy
2. The sexy jerk guy
3. The strong, sexy, admired, responsible leader guy. (The man's man)

Don't let the alpha, beta. etc throw you off...these archetypes are very real.

Alpha, beta, etc

I don't know, I am really a bit sceptical as to whether you can categorise people into types like that. I mean, for instance, I haven't a clue as to how I would categorise my husband, I don't know whether he's an alpha male or not, I mean he's very succesful in his career and certainly capable of being forceful enough for ten, but certainly not the kind of man women flock around, which as I've said is just as well, because one would never have a moment's peace fending off the competition, and it would be too tiresome for words.

As for looking at other men, well, of course I look, I'm married, I'm not blind. For instance, during the Olympics we were watching the sailing on TV, and there was a close-up of this absolutely stunning gorgeous blonde hunk just getting back into his boat, and I didn't say anything but I drew my breath in a bit sharply. "Down, girl" my husband muttered, knowing perfectly well what I was thinking. He looks too, I mean, the only Olympic sport in which he took any interest apart from the sailing was the women's beach volleyball, and I'm not naive enough to think his interest in that had anything to do with sport. But whether it had anything to do with apha, beta or whatever, I doubt.

Whenever people start categorising others by type, I am always reminded of Rose Macaulay's hilarious novel 'Staying with Relations', about an English woman writer going to stay with her American aunt and the aunt's extended family in the middle of the jungle in Guatemala. The writer is forever deciding that her relatives are this or that type, and it turns out she is 100% wrong about all of them, every single one of them is totally different from what she has imagined. I simply don't belive you can pigeonhole people like that.

As for feeling completely secure when I was a child, well no, I can't honestly say I did. My mother had divorced her first husband in order to marry my father, with whom she was always having lengthy and furious rows, and I always thought they might be going to get divorced as well. My mother was an extremely volatile woman, and you never knew when she was going to fly off the handle next, or about what, being around her was like being around a ticking time bomb. I'm inclined to think that the 50% divorce rate may simply be because divorce is easier to come by now, had it been less difficult to obtain in the past, maybe we would always have had a 50% rate, who knows?

Kind and Supportive

Dear Louise,

I just want to draw your attention to one thing I said in my post about the friend who stood by me when I had cancer. While I don't particularly crave a Taken in Hand relationship and I don't look at and classify men or women into particular types according to levels of dominance, my friend was not kind and supportive from a position of weakness.

I did mention that though it was not the focus of our friendship at all, he knew how to put his foot down. Let me give you two examples. One: I went through a very frightening period when the doctors believed my cancer had spread. I was scheduled to go into the hospital and have a CAT-scan assisted needle biopsy into my left femur where a bone scan and MRI had revealed a mass.

Hearing this, Richard insisted he was going to meet me at the hospital. I had to be there very early in the morning, before his home attendant would show up. He was under doctor's orders not to leave the house without his home attendant. Knowing this, I protested that I was going with my husband and that it would be dangerous for Richard to come out.

Richard cut off my (valid) protests, saying, "NO,I'm coming, because I know how scared you are!" Talk about having the wind taken out of my sails. What could I say to that, but, "Thank you?"

In the second instance I was talking about the alleged spread (by the way: the doctors were wrong)of cancer and was about to say, "the cancer in my leg." Richard picked up on where I was going and just about shouted in my ear, "Don't say it!"

Then there was a silence of several seconds. I think we were both shocked as he had never raised his voice to me and I think he was shocked that he had done so. Finally I said, "All right..I won't say it."

You could call it being "taken in hand" but I don't. I just call those two episodes strong evidence of love and caring. He didn't have to spank me or anything else to get his point across. We could debate whether he was right or not about both those instances, but he stood up for what he believed in.

Kind and supportive don't equal weak and timid. This man stared death in the face a number of times and still kept loving, kept visiting the sick and bereaved..even though he was even sicker...and kept on laughing. He was a little skinny guy who didn't weigh more than 140 lbs. but you bet he had presence. We called him "Mother Teresa."

As I said, I don't know where he'd be on this arbitrary continuum and I don't care. He has a place in my heart forever.

This Structure

Actually this structure in personal public relations is very valid, IN GROUPS! it becomes irrelevant in individual relationships. the reason you ask?

Once you have picked your mate and left the group, there is no reason to impress your superiority on others except the one you left with, with an individual you are being judged by your personal intimate demeanor, not your public presence,

Public dominance will get you the hit, but it wont get you to first base when it's time to get personal.

Alpha males in public can win almost any woman's interest and curiosity, and occasionally get you to an intimate level with her but in general most women look upon it as a turn off once the crowd is gone. You need to stop playing to the crowd when you are alone.

i have to agree on this one.

i have noticed this 'ranking order' many times while out socially, the alpha male is generally the charismatic guy who everyone wants to talk to or to know, women are attracted to him and he takes command of the room.

i have especially noticed this with my husband, he has a demanding career of high position and not only does he silently command attention from everyone at work but socially too, when ever we go out he is at the center, people always want to talk to him, to be near him, he never has to make a spectacle of himself, it's as if his mere presence draws people to him.

i have seen other men try to bring him down with snide comments but he usually just smirks and ignors it or replys with something that will make them laugh.

i also notice women are drawn to him but he never flirts with them, guess i'm just lucky, he is polite though and that is another thing i love about him.

So yes there are alphas etc and my husband is one of the alphas, he is lovely on the inside as well as outside, he is strong, commanding, dominant, handsome, educated and has class but he is also loving, kind, sincere, honest and my best friend as well as husband, not all alphas are nasty, my husband proves this.

Alpha

I really liked how you wrote down your Alpha experience with your strong minded husband. Your article sounded too good to be true! LOL!With a husband like that- how could you ever be blue?

My husband/boyfriend

I always fall for the omega type of man. I end up breaking up with them when I realize that it will take the great majority of my life trying to pull him out of his grown-up-babiness. I have had a child with one and we are trying so hard to work it out but he can be mean sometimes because of his low self esteem. thats how I stumbled upon this. I love him but he is soo overly sensitive. It took two years for him to get a job just because he is too lazy. He plays video games day and night. He actually is nice enough to try and give me what I need if I don't make him feel bad about himself (unintentionally) in the process of making a request. Which are more and more frequent now that our baby is older. He flys off the handle and hides back tears all the time. He also loves to talk about how special his mother made him feel when he was growing up and that he shouldnt have to get a job because he's not a "slave". I have to give him props though because with allot of effort on his part he is actually attempting to grow up as he slowly realizes what the hell that means.... take a breath.

Didn't we go over this in middle school?

I think my husband would be considered a natural alpha by most manosphere charts, diagrams, graphs and werewolf assemblies. He draws naked people for a living, says what he thinks even among senior faculty, eats red meat and lifts, graciously puts up with onslaughts of female admiration, and in our family, what he says goes. Of course he might get points off the alpha for being faithful especially when I'm breastfeeding and unlikely to conceive anyway. What silly genes! Also he puts gas in my car which has got to be the definition of putting on a pedestal. And he's good-looking, and we all know natural good looks aren't important to women. When he was in middle school, his mother told him "just be yourself" and "be nice to girls." That deceitful woman!

Um

Actual Omega

The concept of Omega I think is not correct. This is what I believe. " The polar opposite of the Alpha Male. Omega Males can have friends and close acquaintances but prefer to accomplish things on their own without the help of a group. Omega Males generally don't belong to any cliques and have no desire to be the leader or most outstanding of said clique. Omega Males have relations with people from all groups and carry a resourcefulness and cunning (sometimes strength) to get a job done with their own skill. This being said, an omega male can have great pride without it manifesting as "ego." (There are always exceptions.

An Alpha Male MUST absolutely be perceived by his peers as the toughest, most popular, and smartest. An Omega Male cares little for this recognition.