How Do You Make This Transition With Teenagers in the House?
We are seeking advice on a practical matter that doesn't seem to be addressed on this site in much detail. That is, how best to transition to a Taken In Hand relationship in a household with three other people (our teenage children) in it.
As Mr Lucky takes more control and becomes HOH, we're sure the kids will notice the change in our relationship. What should we say to them? Kids are very observant and ask lots of questions, so questions will surely come up. When they ask or make a comment what should we say? What have other people said and is there any advice out there to avoid potential quagmires?
And were a situation to arise where Mr Lucky felt the need for some sort of verbal or physical reprimand or whatever you would call it, how best for him to proceed? A code word? A "Let's talk about this later"? OBVIOUSLY he would not show his authority physically in front of the children, but how do other people handle this? It would be nice to hear how others have gone about this transition.
We don't want to be secretive, but we do want to be discreet.
This seems to be our biggest hurdle.We both want to be in a Taken In Hand relationship, but with three impressionable people in our household, we want to proceed with caution. How much authority do other husbands show in front of their kids?
Thanks!
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#1 Don't Worry About It
It's not like you will be getting spanked or having sex in front of them, so you shouldn't worry too much about the rest. Your teenaged children will undoubtedly pick up on the fact that your husband is now in charge. If they ask questions, just tell them that yes, he is charge, and, yes, you like it this way. Then you might mention that when they are adults in their own relationships, they will have to determine what works best for them.
It is impossible to determine how this may or may not affect your children, so just do what feels natural to you. My mother was the one in charge in my parents' marriage, but here I am in a male-led relationship. I thought Dad was a wuss to let Mom yell and scream and push him around so I deliberately chose a man who would not let me do that, even if I ever felt so inclined. Your kids will figure out their own inclinations. Again, don't worry too much about it. Your kids will end up doing their own thing when they get older anyway.
Mrs. KISS
#2 Be discreet
I don't agree that kids need pick up on the change in such a way that they'll ask about it. The control should be kept just between the two of you. They might notice that you're happier but if they notice more than that, you're veering into dangerous territory and you should be more careful to be discreet. I certainly would NOT tell the kids your husband is in charge and that's the way you like it. Way too much information! The character of your relationship is a private matter between you and it should not be something you discuss with your kids! That's very inappropriate!
If your kids do ask, simply say that you are very happy in your relationship, but that you will not be giving any further details as that is private. It's between you and your husband and not the kids' business. But as one with kids just out of the teen years myself I can say quite categorically they won't ask. Trust me, kids do not want to know the intimate details of their parents' relationship! TMI!
Discretion is key. Keep it private. In my opinion if you regard keeping private things private as being "secretive" (with the negative connotation that word has) you have a lack of healthy boundaries and may need psychiatric help or at least some family therapy to diminish the damage being done to the kids. Normal kids DO NOT WANT TO KNOW private details of their parents' relationship! Too much information!
#3 A new focus
While teenagers would definitely not ask if it was about something they knew was sexual, they would not necessarily think a change in the dynamic between their parents was sexual.
My parents have always been pretty much equal, and if they started treating each other differently, I would probably have noticed, and might have commented on it.
If they ask, you could just say 'We've found a new focus in our relationship.'
There are always fairly simple things to say that will satisfy other peoples' curiosity without revealing anything that would be better kept private.
#4 Discretion with honesty
I would agree with the "don't worry about it" advice from Mrs. KISS. The advice to "Be Discreet" sounds to me more like paranoia than simple discretion. I'm all for keeping sex totally private, but why in the world should it be a secret that the husband is the boss in their marriage? There was a time not too long ago when everyone in the world knew -- and took for granted -- that the husband was in charge of his wife. And you think they should keep that a big secret? Even from their own kids??
If he refrains from exercising any control over his wife at all -- so long as the kids are there -- then how is he even the full-time boss in their marriage? His leadership and control stops whenever the kids are there? Then he's not really the boss -- they are.
The only other option -- having some secret, previously agreed-upon coded words or gestures or other signals between the man and wife, that only they know what they mean -- might conceivably work when they're out for an evening with friends or acquaintances. But the kids will no doubt catch on to that sort of thing right away, and the aura of secrecy might cause it to blow up into an even much bigger thing in their eyes.
So I would say the husband can and should exercise polite, respectful verbal control over his wife, even with the children there. The teenagers may pick up on the man's new verbal assertiveness, so it might be necessary to explain that both mom and dad have decided that their marriage will be happier if dad is the one in charge. Why in the world such a simple thing should be shrouded in secrecy and taboo, I cannot imagine.
#5 Creepy
The idea that my husband would only be in charge if he were to engage in inappropriate displays in front of the children would be laughable if it were not creepy. My husband is in charge through and through. His total control of me is in no sense negated by the fact that he is appropriately discreet when others are present. What an absurd suggestion!
Your teenagers may notice something – that's not the issue – but unless they have been exceptionally poorly raised they will not ask about it. If they do ask, it does not follow that you have to reveal private information about your relationship.
If your teenagers ask, just tell them you are very happy in your marriage but that the details of your relationship are private. Unless they have been raised with an unhealthy lack of boundaries bordering on child abuse, they will respect that reply and not probe further.
If they were to probe further and you were to feel the need to give them private information, ask yourself why you feel such a need, which seems to me to be creepily exhibitionist, and before you divulge private information, ask yourself whether you really want to deal with the possible consequences. Because if your teenagers are as indiscreet as you are, you could find yourselves in heaps of trouble. Once you have told people, you can't un-tell them.
If you believe that it is impossible for your husband to be truly in charge unless he is making public displays of 'control', it seems to me that your husband is not actually in charge in any sense.
Perhaps this problem is arising precisely because the original poster's husband is not yet in control, because they are only just starting to explore the idea of Taken In Hand, and currently they can't see how the husband can be in control without inappropriate displays in front of the children. In that case, rest assured, original poster, that your husband's control can grow without any public displays. It takes time, and you will want to feel fully controlled sooner than it will happen, but believe me, no public displays are necessary, and I can't imagine why anyone would think they are.
If something is to be said, the husband can simply say to his wife, "Come to the bedroom [or any other private room] please. I want to talk to you in private." Then everything further is said in private. Or if you are out with friends, and something absolutely must be said at that moment (though usually it can wait until later when you get home and can talk in privacy), again, the husband can simply take his wife aside to talk privately. But usually, these things can wait until later.
If it is necessary for your husband to tell you to do something in front of others, like to wait in the car, or not to drink a full cup of coffee after dinner, because it stops you sleeping, he should do so quietly, naturally and without drama (not loudly, not in an exaggerated whisper, and not with any kind of swagger or exaggerated facial expression, etc). It should not be necessary very often. This should not be happening every day. Most things can be said privately. If your husband does tell you to do something in others' hearing, such as at dinner (and even then, note that people often don't hear or don't appear to notice, even if they are sitting next to you) you should simply quietly obey, again without any drama. No shocked look. No resistance. No fight. No sad or angry face. No theatrical production. If the two of you do this entirely without any drama, and only occasionally, and only when necessary, not gratuitously, or as a display of (pseudo-)control, it is highly unlikely that anyone, teenagers or otherwise, will say anything even if they do notice.
Obviously if your husband makes a big production of it, or if you start arguing with your husband, there will be an uncomfortable and inappropriate scene, but there shouldn't be.
I'm sure our children and friends have had one or two opportunities to notice how things are between my husband and me, but no one has ever asked us about it or commented in any way. They would never be so intrusive. They have healthy psychological boundaries.
#6 Discretion
We said as little as possible to the children including when they were older and became teenagers. I think part of raising healthy teenagers is encouraging them to respect privacy. Our children have grown up to respect egalitarian relationships because that has worked for them.
If parents have an egalitarian relationship instead of a Taken In Hand one, but are having sexual relations and children happen to hear and ask about the sounds, what should be said?
Assuming that appropriate sex-education has already occurred in the household, I think the best answer is:
"Mom and Dad have private times together, love each other very much, and no more needs to be said.."
If children ask more, no more should be said.
This is true if one is involved with Taken In Hand or not. Children do sometimes hear their parents having sex, but one of the most important lessons growing up is the importance of discretion in what they should ask about. This is taught (by example) when parents do not talk about certain things, even if asked.
In terms of day-to-day behavior, I think it is OK for your husband to gently and politely ask for things from you, even in front of the children -- perhaps more than you would ask from him. e.g. "Honey please do X and Y." But that does not imply that you should be telling your children that he is in charge of you.
By the way, the same goes for those who believe in egalitarian relationships. There is no reason to wax philisophical and explain to your children that you "share power" in the household. Exhibiting love and warmth towards each other (with power sharing or with Taken In Hand inspired power relationships) is the best practical way of teaching children how to love and ultimately make their own choices when they are older. Talking to children about how to love rarely or ever teaches people how to do so, while your excellent example in caring for your husband (and vice versa) is far more powerful.
Obviously, minimizing the sounds made when engaging in intimate activities is also an example of teaching the children about discretion.
#7 Question
Which do you think the children would rather hear?
An all out screaming match
OR
"Honey, I need you to get x, y, and z done before I get home from work. I love you."
Frankly, I know my son, family and friends are FAR more comfortable with the latter than they were with the former. It doesn't have to be obvious to work! :)
#8 Older Children and privacy
We have the same issue at our house. The only thing is our boys are college age and still live at home instead of in the dorm (they save a bundle of money this way). I am sure they have noticed because they have been so used to asking me for things but now they have to ask their dad. They have also noticed the looks I get when I cross "that" line. They also know something is up when I get the look and am told by hubby that he needs to speak to me in private.
The boys have never asked but they see the difference.
I will say that having them around all the time does make it challenging for discipline to be applied. Since my husband has combined both Taken In Hand and CDD in our relationship I get spanked. We would rather them not hear me being spanked so hubby has been on the hunt for quiet instruments and he found one but I am not always quiet. I guess that is why he hands me the pillow.
#9 Respect and caring
What's to notice? Being more respectful of each other and you deferring to your husband's decisions? Perhaps showing more overt affection? It would be nice if there was a flow on effect.
As parents, the leaders in the home environment, we set the tone.
If my teenage children have noticed the rather obvious changes in the way that my husband and I relate, they have not commented. It is significant that the number of confrontations with their father about issues has dropped significantly.
And what happens behind closed (locked) bedroom doors when your husband needs to physically exercise his authority, if that is part of your taken in hand gestalt, is a private matter. Picking an appropriate time and implement (a switch which is quiet, if necessary) are the only constraints. When children are locked into their own little world of computers, electronc games and the whole range of activities that definitely exclude parent participation, they tend to be oblivious of anything else happening around them. Never moreso than when they have a ipod plugged into their ears!
Best wishes
Nartie
#10 Teenagers
We had three teenagers. Obviously you lock the bed room door and it's hard when they are awake later than you are etc in terms of sex. That's just life.
I think we developed pretty good mutual respect and privacy rights working both ways.
As for what they see they probably just see a contented couple. I don't think children need to see a woman (or man ) being castigated in front of the children. In fact when I see a non-takeninhand relationship where someone is nasty or critical to or disrespectful to their partner whether they are male or female I hate to see that and wouldn't want children to see that either.
I also think it's important as plenty of our female children may well be born dominant or gay or vanilla it's crucial they aren't conditioned to think women are housewives and could never be leading surgeons or fight in the armed forces or lead a big corporation. One of the best gifts all my children have had is a contented mother with a very fulfilling successful career. That gives children many more options than if they think female equals no job or fathers cannot be at home.
#11 Keeping it from the children
I personally have found it quite impossible to keep our Taken In Hand relationship a secret from our children. My husband has absolutely no scruples about laying down the law to me in front of our children, telling me off about something if he feels like it. They know about stuff like the fact that I am supposed to be off the computer by 9pm (10pm Fridays and Saturdays), and things like that.
I don't mind this. I think the idea of keeping everything secret would get a bit tiresome really. My sons are quite used to the way things are. 'Dad's the Captain and Mum's the First mate" I heard no.2 son say to no.3 son once.
He has never mentioned spanking or anything like that in front of the children, and I would be embarrassed if he did, but he never has done. But the fact that he is in charge is something that is well known. It is not something I particularly want to have to keep secret.
It is, after all, not so long ago that it was considered the norm for the husband to be in charge (not that everyone lived that way), and I don't really see why it should trouble anyone particularly. The more kinky stuff, like spanking, I do think it is best to keep quiet about.
Louise
#12 My husband and I have been in
My husband and I have been in a Taken in Hand relationship for 16 days. We don't talk about it in front of our kids. We are careful about what we say and do. My husband has not ordered me to do anything in front of them. He says it like a question and I know that it is not. My boys are 6, 4, and 16 months.
A couple days ago my 6 year old (well he'll be six this month) asked me why daddy was in charge now. I told him that we used to fight alot about who was in charge and that I decided to let daddy make the decisions so that I would not be so stressed. That I was second in command and still in charge of him and is brothers. He said, "Oh. I understand that." If my 6 year old picked up on it then I'm sure a teenager would.
And to those who think a teenager should know better than to bring up personal questions to their parents: I'm glad you weren't my parent. My mother was always completely open and honest with us. If we had a question we asked. We were taught that no question was rude or disrespectful. If my mother didn't want to answer she'd tell us, but that never once happened. It's not like we wanted details about her sex life. If I had noticed a change in my moms behavior I would have wanted to know why. My mother has always been my best friend, don't get me wrong she was a mom. But to this day she is my best friend. I love her very much and talk to her everyday. That is the kind of parent that I want to be. And I know this seems a little off topic but I don't think it is. Taken In Hand parents should be even more happy to be this open. Of course we would not tell them he spanks me, or punishes me at all. But other details like if I have to ask to do things, sure they can know that. They also will know that I do that because I want to not because their father wants me to.
#13 Head of the entire House
We still have two of our children living at home, ages 17 and 20. You might say we began a Taken in Hand approach to our relationship before knowing about it simply because we knew we needed a change, or more than I needed a change, in our relationship. I was always the one in control of the house, but since I carried so much emotional baggage from past abuse you can see the picture of what our house was; not horrible, but not much consistency. My youngest would argue with her dad and dad would argue back; our son also seemed to be a little out of control and without direction.
Since things have begun to change my daughter has commented that she has never seen me so happy ever! I take so much better care of myself more for my husband than for myself (but I am beginning to like what I see in the mirror), but my daughter comments now regularly about how great I look. In the beginning she would still ask if we could go somewhere or do something spontaneous as we would often do in the past, but I knew my husband wanted things done and so I would let he know that I had things to clean and could not go. This was when I saw the most difference, my daughter would come along side me and begin helping me with the household chores without me asking her. My husband's newfound presence in the house has also almost completely cut out the constant arguments that my daughter would get into with my husband. She listens more to what he says and doesn't disagree so much.
Our son recently was discharged from the armed services and moved back home. He noticed a difference right from the start. My husband has made it clear what he expects of my son and that he is to respect us both and our home without question. He has also made it clear to our son that he is not to sit on anything but is to get going finding work, getting into school and getting his life in order or he can go elsewhere to be lazy. Our son has responded to this and appears to be appreciative of the guidance and has asked his dad for advice in making some decisions.
So for those who worry about how a Taken In Hand relationship with affect your older children I can attest that we have seen benefits that we didn't expect. Our children seem happier at home. How I wish we had found this path years ago, but I am thankful for it now.
Blessings,
Jacquie
#14 Thank you for your comments
Sorry it has taken so long for me to respond to all of your comments and advice on this topic. I didn’t feel like I could really respond until I had some actual experience with Taken In Hand in the context of our whole family.
I’m surprised to say that although I know that the kids have noticed a difference in the way Mr Lucky and I relate to one another, they have not so far asked or commented about it at all.
We have been fairly discreet so it’s not like they have witnessed anything out of the realm of ordinary, such as spanking or blatant reprimands. But the tone of our relationship has definitely changed in a visible and I would say profoundly positive way.
Probably the most obvious visible sign is that we can’t keep our hands off each other. We hold hands all the time, sit on the couch sort of entwined as we watch tv and pretty much kiss or hug every time we pass each other in the hallway.
I’m really glad to be able to model a more loving and respectful relationship for our teenagers rather than my previous behavior, which I was sometimes embarrassed by after the fact.
Even though we don’t argue much, pre Taken In Hand, I was often on the attacking side of a disagreement. I was known to raise my voice, become emotional and sometimes downright mean in my comments to Mr Lucky. (Behavior I am not proud of). He would usually retreat which would only spur me on and make me think less of him because he wasn’t standing up for himself. Other times he would meet my meanness with his own and things would escalate far beyond what the topic deserved. Luckily, this was relatively rare, but one time I remember this happening and after Mr Lucky stormed out of the room, our middle son, who had overheard the encounter asked me “Why do you do that?”. Why indeed…
Last month, during a particularly stressful time when we had overlapping guests staying with us along with various other issues regarding school and work etc, I had obviously reached my wits end, when a trivial issue arose (regarding towels, no less) and I just went off. I was downstairs beginning to rant at the kids -feeling my voice rising and myself getting more emotional. Mr Lucky must have heard what was going on and he came downstairs and just took over the whole situation. He firmly, but politely and respectfully asked if I would calm down. It didn’t sound like anything more than that, but I knew there was a threat of consequence in his question. It was amazing that just his look was able to make me focus and realize I was going down a road I didn’t want to go down. Not just because of a potential punishment but because I didn’t want to behave in that manner. It just stopped me in my tracks and I was able to answer that Yes, I would calm down and I did. I happened to catch my son’s eye at that moment and at first I felt embarrassed that Mr Lucky had shown his power over me. I think I was worried that I would be diminished in the eyes of my son. But then I realized that I was exhibiting a way better model of behavior in changing my tone and that I was also allowing Mr Lucky to show his strength in front of our sons. Not by conquering me but by handling a situation calmly, respectfully and rationally rather than by retreating as he might have pre-Taken In Hand.
Mr Lucky went on to get us to a consensus where we all felt okay. I was super proud of him, and really glad that because of Taken In Hand, I was able to improve my behavior mid-stream and Mr Lucky was able to model HOH behavior that was great for our kids to see.
So, at least so far, there have not been any outward questions about our new roles, but I think the kids are able to see us both behaving in ways that we are much more proud of and that we hope they are more proud of too.