Hint that you want a Taken In Hand relationship?
I've been enjoying this website for a while, and think very highly of those of you writing articles as well as contributing to the forums, which is why I'm now here for some advice!
Pursuing a male-led relationship is something I've been toying with for a while. Growing up, I was always (and still am) treated as an equal to men, and have enjoyed the freedom afforded to me by the feminist movement. Wrapping my head around everything 'Taken in Hand' has therefore been a slow and steady exercise, but I'm coming to the conclusion that it's something I have a desire for.
As it stands now, I've limited myself to visiting this site and reading Laura Doyle's 'The Surrendered Wife', both of which I have done rather secretively. In fact, I'm embarrassed to admit wanting such a relationship, and really can't imagine bringing it up in conversation with my husband, in part because I don't want to feel as though I'm forcing my ideas or desires on him. Worse, would be if he perceived this as being some kind of fetish or fantasy to partake in only some of the time. So I've been acting "as if", and even started a blog so I could journal about the experience which has been helping to a degree, but when your husband doesn't know what you're up to, it can be difficult to maintain that voluntary submissive state as there are no consequences for reverting back to the controlling person you used to be.
Lately we've been having intimacy issues, which has a lot to do with feeling over-extended as a result of demands that friends and family members have been making of us as of late. There's just been no time for "us". Since male-led relationships tend to lend themselves to fostering intimacy in marriage (and as we're already discussing relationship issues), somehow hinting at everything Taken In Hand in an email to him (under the guise of continuing our discussion on solving our intimacy issue) seems like a good idea, but I haven't the first clue how to go about doing so in such a suggestive - but naive - manner.
I'd really appreciate any advice or opinions on how I can perhaps expedite this whole process without having to lay it all on the line, so to speak. Anyone have any good one-liners?
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#1 EMAIL?!? How Cold Is That? Something This Sensitive...
...should be approached Face-To-Face.
OK, you fear a direct approach? Try flatly stating that you truly wish to be his "Dream Girl" and ASK him what that means to him. That places the "ball" in his "court".
Expect him to be shocked by your query, but once he recovers his equilibrium, expect a rational and well-thought response.
Upon his reply, I firmly believe that you must decide on the future of this relationship. This means that if his answer predicts something less than ideal, you should determine at that time whether the consequences of continuing the relationship will be tolerable or not.
Mutual satisfaction, of course, IS ideal, but YOUR satisfaction is of UTMOST importance. Remember, should you decide to continue this relationship, you commit your entire life to him. The decision to continue or not will define the quality of the rest of your life.
--
Mick McCleod
#2 Hint hint
Here is what my girl did extremely effectively. She hinted me over a period of a few weeks by saying things like "I want to always obey you", or "your desire is my command". In the end she was almost begging me to command her. If you say such things to him, and he is interested, I think he should pick this up and will heat up. My ears rang and my head spun when I first heard her use such phrasing.
Also, you are now at a crossroad with your talks, I think it is great backdrop to open this idea. Even more directly. You could say that you feel a distance and you want to be close.
Email isn't good for this because you can't test the waters. We have used internet chatting (we have to because of the way we currently live) and it works very well. Doing it face to face makes sense too, but it might be easier and less pushy if you anyway communicate electronically.
For your talk you might verbalize clearly a wisdom that my girl taught me: she wants to overcome distance by me engaging her. If things aren't going well, I get annoyed and turn away. She asks instead that I give her commands to make her improve the situation so that I am pleased. She knows that there is a great reward for both of us in this because it's making us both hot, making my negative thoughts melt and turn into love and passion. This concept is well worth stating upfront.
Finally, I still feel uncomfortable bossing her around. But by her asking this so clearly of me, I now have given her a promise that I will learn that, that I will shed my inhibitions. It is something I want to do, and if your man takes interest, he too will want it badly. You can suggest to him to overcome his inhibitions by promising you to keep you busy and engaged. By being all his. If you say it "I am your woman", "I am yours", "I feel so good to be yours", things like this, if he has it, this ought to crack the seed.
#3 Honesty is the best policy
Wrapping my head around everything 'Taken in Hand' has therefore been a slow and steady exercise, but I'm coming to the conclusion that it's something I have a desire for.
I understand this. As someone who was ALWAYS in control of myself and my marriage, it was a total shock to myself that being Taken in Hand was something I would want. I think what is most important for you to do right now, is decide if this is something you REALLY want. Easier said than done if you have never tried, I know, but you must really try to question your intention now. If you think this is some "fix" to solve problems in your marriage you may end up disappointed if it is not a true desire. While I am the first to admit my marriage is 110% better after being Taken In Hand, the reason for this is because of my intention. I desired and wanted to be Taken In Hand, the side effect of that was a profound improvement of my marriage. I hope you understand what I am saying. This must be your desire or in my opinion you both will just end up frustrated.
As it stands now, I've limited myself to visiting this site and reading Laura Doyle's 'The Surrendered Wife', both of which I have done rather secretively. In fact, I'm embarrassed to admit wanting such a relationship, and really can't imagine bringing it up in conversation with my husband, in part because I don't want to feel as though I'm forcing my ideas or desires on him. Worse, would be if he perceived this as being some kind of fetish or fantasy to partake in only some of the time.
While I did enjoy parts of Laura Doyle's book, I don't necessarily agree with everything she writes. I think for anyone reading ANY book, you need to keep that what resonates and works for you and discard the rest. I don't subscribe to the "secret" method. I firmly believe that open, honest communication is the best method for getting to where you want to be. I have too much respect for my husband to sink to what in my opinion is conniving, and frankly an insult to his intelligence. My husband deserves my honesty, and actually demands it. Since he is the head of the household, I must honor that. Yes, it can be embarrassing at times, though as time goes on, it becomes less so.
I am the one who brought the idea of being Taken In Hand to him, so I really do understand where it is you are coming from. I was embarrassed at first. I also constantly felt as if I was the one pushing this type of relationship, as if I was "forcing" him. I would check with him and ask him incessantly if this was the case. He was very patient and we talked about it openly and honestly. I truly believe that is one of the major cornerstones of this type of dynamic; communication. Without the ability to communicate, you cannot think to be successful with this. My thoughts on "forcing" him have changed dramatically over the past year. I have learned, and this is something that you will learn too, is if he is the head of the household, the leader, it is his right to say "No". If he doesn't say no or tell you to change something that you are doing, then you have to assume he is comfortable with the relationship. I am of the opinion that you as his wife owe him your thoughts and desires and he has the leader will decide what is best.
I think my husband did think this was some passing fancy of mine at first. I think that can only go away with time. We were married almost 14 years before I was Taken In Hand. For us, this was a complete 180 in our way of relating to each other. I can tell you now that it was the best thing that has ever happened to us. Some of the results occurred immediately, increased intimacy, not being able to get enough of each other, happiness, his increased confidence, and I could go on. But I am not sure if he was truly convinced that it would last. Now that he believes it and we are secure in our roles, HE would NEVER give it up. My husband LOVES his role in our family, and I love mine too.
but when your husband doesn't know what you're up to, it can be difficult to maintain that voluntary submissive state as there are no consequences for reverting back to the controlling person you used to be.
This is EXACTLY why I believe honesty is the best policy. I am natually submissive, although many women here are not. If I didn't feel my Husband's power, I would find it hard not to go back to the way things were before. My husband is naturally an Alpha, but he surpressed it at home for many years. Now he and I both feel free to be who we are. I will tell you that a Taken In Hand relationship takes work, as any relationship does of course, it is ACTIVE control by the husband, so ask yourself this question, if your husband doesn't know about it, how can he actively control anything? How could it possibly work at all?
Lately we've been having intimacy issues, which has a lot to do with feeling over-extended as a result of demands that friends and family members have been making of us as of late. There's just been no time for "us". Since male-led relationships tend to lend themselves to fostering intimacy in marriage (and as we're already discussing relationship issues), somehow hinting at everything Taken In Hand in an email to him (under the guise of continuing our discussion on solving our intimacy issue) seems like a good idea, but I haven't the first clue how to go about doing so in such a suggestive - but naive - manner.
Part of what worked for us and intimacy was giving my blanket consent over a year ago. I have NEVER taken it back, nor will I ever. It took some getting used to at first, as my first reaction usually was, "Not tonight, I have a headache." But after he became confident in the fact that it is his right, it has been AMAZING!! I cannot stress enough how well that has worked for us. The decision for intimacy is his, and I don't have to worry or stress about it anymore. He doesn't have to worry that I will say no. That alone makes things better. Yes, real life things do get in the way with that sometimes, health, kids, family, etc, but that happens for EVERYONE. You make the best of it and move on. Being Taken In Hand doesn't stop the world from turning or kids getting sick, but it does, for us anyway, remind us that we are there for each other.
My advice regarding the email is this, face to face is better, but I understand you are scared. How about printing up some articles from this site and showing them to him. Ask him to read them. That is what I did. Articles about how I was feeling, how I saw him, what things really spoke to me, what I wanted. That was a good start for us. It sparked conversation. A LOT of conversation. Then go from there. Show him the site, ask him how he feels, and what he thinks.
Remember, this is a journey, not a sprint. Being comfortable in a Taken In Hand relationship doesn't necessarily happen overnight, but if it is what you truly desire, it can be unbelievably freeing, fulfilling, and loving.
I hope this helps you, Good Luck
#4 Take it a little bit at a time.
Your husband's biggest problem is that he is not going to have anyone to discuss it with. Most of the guys I work with discuss their marriages with other people and most are subservient to their wives. You mentioned that right now their are no consequences for you going back to your controlling ways. Do you mean spanking? Bringing up spanking as a sexual thing to get out of your rut might be easier at first. Later you can shift it to more "taken in hand" type of relationship.
#5 Upon his reply
"Upon his reply, I firmly believe that you must decide on the future of this relationship. This means that if his answer predicts something less than ideal, you should determine at that time whether the consequences of continuing the relationship will be tolerable or not."
Uh, maybe you did not read it carefully Mick, but the OP says she is married. Last I checked, it was not cool to ditch one's husband when his answer to a relationship question "predicts something less than ideal."
Actually, I cannot see ending any relationship because it looks like it will be less than ideal. IMO, every relationship is less than ideal.
To the OP: I think you are on the right track. Acting "as if" seems a great way to start. Then maybe you are ready to explain, in a general way, how you are trying to act and why. Let him come around gradually to how changing his own behavior fits in. It may take him a while to "get it."
Good luck. And IMO, any man whose wife starts acting "as if" is a lucky man, though it may take him a little while to catch on.
#6 Email is not a good idea
I don't like the e-mail idea. I have heard of couples leaving each other notes on things that are too stressful to talk about. One trick I have heard of being used successfully is to make him lunch with a bottle of his favorite beer, and note describing what you want and then leave. This gives him time to absorb the concept in his own time.
Let us know how it works!
#7 If you want him to rule, then act as if he's already ruling
If you want him to rule, then act as if he's already ruling... ;-)
The more you make it obvious that this is what you want, the more his natural dominance is likely to come out--and you are probably 95% likely to start getting exactly what you want over time.
You can also consider heating things up. Especially if he's competitive, you can make it a game: Resist in order to surrender. Run in order to get caught. Flirt in order to get.....
Oh...flirt. Yes, flirt! MMmmmmmm, flirt! ;-)
There's nothing that stirs most men's passions like a provocative look accompanied by an ever-so-provocative outfit along with a "But you'll never catch me and take control of me" look or action.
My advice: Show him you want to be caught. Show him you want to be controlled.
And show (and maybe explain to) him that this isn't just about sex, but about your whole life together... Or maybe said a bit differently, everything is sex when he's being your man, even and especially when your clothes are on.
Suppose even after all this your husband doesn't get the hint?
Then I suggest that you talk your man's language: Be direct. :-) Most men will appreciate that a great deal. Honestly, our culture isn't very straightforward with men that this is how they should be. One could forgive a man who just doesn't understand these things unless told, right?
-Henson
#8 Hints?
I think myself it is better to tell him honestly what it is that you want. try to emphasise what the advantages to him might be - you'll find him more desirable, there'll be less friction, you'll be more considerate of his needs etc. make it look appealing.
I think it is better to clear the air and bring things out in the open.
I don't personally care that much for the Surrendered Wife, whichnis more about acting passive in order to get your husband to do more himself, it is a manipulative technique that apparently works very well for some women, but it isn't what I think of as Taken In Hand, which to me means being more open and honest with your partner about your desires.
Louise
#9 I'm back at last, and with an update for inquiring minds!
My goodness, I posted that original discussion topic almost 6 mos. ago! And you know what? That's how long it's taken me to gather the courage to have a face-to-face with my husband about my thoughts on the subject.
The comments posted here helped immensely, and there were some really great suggestions that I was able to implement at the time. Of course, "life" often gets in the way of well-intentioned plans, and I found that my desire to achieve this kind of relationship dynamic fizzled-out a bit. (Very personal question here, but ladies, do you find you crave the Taken in Hand relationship approach more so at certain times of the month? Like, maybe around the time you also happen to be the most fertile? I think that's what kick-started my thinking about it again recently.)
So I brought it up the other night, and let me tell you, it wasn't easy to verbalize the things I'd been feeling for the past few months - at least, not in an articulate manner! I started by speaking about what I think works about our relationship and what doesn't, namely that we're both occupying roles that are too similar to one another, which perhaps isn't entirely conducive to an intimate marriage.
He was very quiet. Surprised, even. I continued, and said I felt that I was finding it exhausting to be responsible for so much, that I always had to be in charge of everything happening in our lives. There were a lot of pauses, some funny face-making on my part (as I squirmed internally at how drawn-out I was making everything!), and hesitation, but I did my best to 'put it all out there', so to speak.
I reminded him of a road trip we took last month, where he naturally took-on the role of 'leader'. He's very good with directions and getting us where we need to be, so I was able to trust in his abilities and happily followed-along behind (providing assistance and insight when it came to me, though unfortunately he had a hard time 'listening' in some cases which caused some delays in our trip that otherwise could have been avoided!). He agreed that it had been a very easy trip, but admitted it had never occured to him as to why that was.
I admitted that conceding control at home wouldn't be too difficult for me either (in theory), since I trust and admire him so much. (It also helps that we have a similar way of thinking, so I know he'll end-up coming to the same kind of decisions that I would have anyway!) I even talked about enjoying the feeling of being provided for and protected (which is something that was awfully difficult for me to even admit to, let alone say, having been raised as a very independent and strong-willed individual!)... and that I wanted the opportunity to behave more like a wife around him than "the person with all the answers" who's always concerned about getting everything right and being so on-the-ball all the time.
We've talked about traditional husband and wife roles in the heat of the moment before too, which obviously, was a big turn-on for both of us, and I mentioned this, too. He eventually agreed that he'd had similar 'thoughts' about what's generally termed a more 'traditional' marriage, but felt that if he had ever brought it up with me, I might not have been too receptive because he thought it might have been an offensive idea to me.
Anyway, I've posted this all up here (though have butchered the details of our conversation, certainly) as I don't think any other group of people can sympathize quite as well with that "uncomfortable in your own skin" feeling that I've got now, as he takes a few days to process everything I said! Unfortunately I didn't think to prepare anything to say ahead of time, or the whole conversation may have flowed a little better. I think he liked what I was saying, to be honest. But I think it blew his mind a tad.
Anyway, I mentioned that I'd look online for some resources and plan on directing him to this site to read some of the articles. I expect some of it will shock or alarm him (and I'm referring to those slightly more risque articles on whipping and ... well, yes, you know), but hope that he can also understand we only have to integrate into our relationship the bits that work for us. Kinda scary, it feels like this discussion we had is a real "game changer", and I don't know if our relationship will ever be the same again .. it's definitely looking like it's about to change and evolve, so I hope it's all for the best in the end.
I know it's still early days for us, but if I had any advice at all to give to anyone else contemplating having this discussion with their partner, it would be to use examples from your lives together where you had this kind of dynamic (a vacation, time spent with the kids, a big life decision) that had a positive result and where you both adapted to more traditional 'roles' quite naturally. You can admit that you really enjoyed that experience and would like to try and implement that kind of thinking or behavior in your everyday lives.
Hoping I can report back in a few weeks (or months) time once (if?) we've sorted out the details, to let you all know if this has been a success or not!