A permanent responsibility?
Strolling through Taken in Hand quotations section, I ran across this gem from Noone:
“I do not believe that a man should ever spank a woman that he does not intend to hold tightly and keep for a lifetime. For, in its own way, spanking consummates the relationship.”
I was immediately reminded of this and felt compelled to share:
“Men have forgotten this truth,” said the fox. “But you must not forget it. You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.”
- Antoine de Saint Exupery - The Little Prince
What do you think? Is a man “forever responsible” for a woman he tames or conquers by lovingly taking her in hand?
A readers' forum post by Moon Child on Fri, 14/10/2011 - 18:42
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#1 Yes he is .....
as long as she wants and accepts him forever.. its a two way street. but he is and will always be resonsible for her. In taming her he took a part of her in him, so with out him she is not whole. at least that is how i feel.
#2 Yes, I believe so too and took it to heart.
I am embarking on this new relationship with this wonderful woman who lit the desire in me to completely possess her. She spoke of wanting to obey me, that my desire be her command, then that I should take her in my hands, lead her, conduct her, yes control her. We have moved this to a point where we shared in words a very clear dream for our future.
I called her my beautiful wild mare who I will have to tame to make her mine. And when she heard this, she was swept away in happiness. The beautiful mare and her owner, this rings so true to us. I call her my mare she calls me my owner. And in every sentence we say "my love" at least once.
By all means she is not easy to tame, she will throw fits, but we have been clear that I would always stay firm and make her fulfill my desire, teach her to obey me. And how? It was clear very soon that it would be with spanking. I was careful at first because she was beaten in an abusive way in her last relationship. But she made it clear to me, and once already we were there. Just getting a taste of it. It was so beautiful. She was in pain, but I did not stop. I was still careful not to be too hard, but she was crying (though I think still in a playful way) and I made her count out loud the last 10 blows. Afterward I gently kissed her tears away, but this helped already to get her over some very limiting shyness.
But we needed more time and we were not fully committed yet, still had things outside our lives still could not be joined together. We had a fallout too, I could not hold her strong enough, but I chose not to do it any harder, I just held her, and could not contain her rage, we had a fight, we did not yet make it. But we got the taste. We agreed how I should have handled the situation, straight against her loudly and clearly declared will. We know it in our minds, we hear our hearts beat the same rhythm, but we could not go there all the way yet.
I know now, I can not play another time like that, because it has consequences. I want to make her mine, totally. The imagery of the mare and the owner clearly rings: to break her in. I wrote her, with love caring caresses and the whip I will teach her to obey me and be mine totally. Once broken in, I feel I am 100% responsible for her, as a part of my own body. It is that serious.
I am telling her what I will do, and let her think it over for a good time. Half year or a year even, while I too think it over. During this time we are to become free, outwardly and inwardly free to fully join each other together in a bond that I have not thought possible for the multiple decades of my life. I still do not know if it will work. I want her to meet other options, want her to try the strong independent proud side of herself, away from me, so that she will not one day look back and wake up finding that she lost her autonomy. I too need to resolve my doubts. But our dreams are so alike, I feel like nothing can separate us, even a good time of thinking it over.
If we get together the next time, it will have to be forever, because I will make her mine, and she will be my body and I will be her head. We will grow together physically and mentally to be one flesh, and woe us if one day we should regret this decision, because we will not be able to disentangle our souls without leaving deadly wounds. So, yes, this is no game, this is extremely serious. So serious that I may have to pass on it if I can not be sure that we will work out together in entirety.
#3 More playing?
I may be misunderstanding because of your rather melodramatic Story-Of-O-like writing, but to me, this all sounds more like a narcissistic D/s fantasy or a game you are playing than Taken In Hand love. This dramatic stuff about each being free to 'meet other options' for as much as a year, with the possibility that you will walk away entirely (Do you love her or not? It certainly doesn't sound like it!), and the suggestion that she might be diminished by being with you, and that fact that you don't seem to have the slightest idea or care how devastating a year of 'freedom' with the possibility that you might walk away entirely would be for her if she is in love with you—this doesn't sound like a basis for a healthy relationship to me. When a man loves a woman, the last thing he would want to do would be to take a year out to think about whether he wants to be with her or not. And in a healthy relationship, including in a Taken In Hand relationship, both spouses including the woman feel, if anything, more autonomous. Taken In Hand does not diminish the woman; if anything, she grows as a person, she flourishes, she feels more herself, stronger, and yes, more autonomous. Both individuals achieve more together than they did before they were together, not less.
A Taken In Hand relationship is a fully committed and wholehearted marriage in which the husband deeply loves his wife and puts her and their relationship first. In reality. Every day of his life. When there are problems, he does not take a year out to see other people and decide whether he wants to be in the relationship or not, he devotes his effort and creativity to solving the problems. The psychology is so very different that it is difficult to think how you could get from where you are psychologically to where the husband in a Taken In Hand relationship is. I may have got the wrong end of the stick, but this is my impression given what you have written here and in your other posts.
#4 re; more playing?
I have not been on this site long, but am finding out more about myself and this desire that has burned inside me ever since I can remember. When I find my husband, I hope he will think as seriously as you.. Sincerely
#5 Please explain ...
Dear Editor, thank you for your feedback. I agree with your saying that "A Taken In Hand relationship is a fully committed and wholehearted marriage in which the husband deeply loves his wife and puts her and their relationship first." From what I wrote you must have observed that I am obviously not yet married to her.
That this has not happened is not just me thinking if I want to be with her or not, it is her thinking as well. We have been trying to make us work together for over a year now. I wanted her badly, but we both come from a prior relationship that were still holding each of us back in different ways. She was blowing me off inconsiderately many times and if we were together she often detached herself from me. She really brought me to my wits end, I was going to quit on her for a year just seeing that it will never work. But there was something that kept us together and come out of each near-split-up to discover a new deeper way of connecting us and it looks like we might be overcoming the problem. However, despite what she says, I had doubts she loves me freely because of the way she can detach herself from me just as fast as she confesses that I am her one greatest love.
However, you being somehow able to sniff in my description a psychological unfitness to a healthy Taken In Hand relationship -- as offensive as I find your jump to this conclusion -- this is precisely why I think both I and she need to think this over before we commit. I don't want that she pushes herself into something that in the end she will regret. She has been very dependent on her male partners for all her life, and at the end of her past relationship she found me. I sense a lot of desire inside her to be independent, self-determined, and I think she needs to try this out, support herself, not depend on me (yes I support her even though we are not yet married), I think she really needs to test her limits. And I too want to check if I am not just trying to pull of some narcissistic D/s thing which leaves her wounded at the end.
As much as I feel offended by your prima-facie judgment "it is difficult to think how you could get from where you are psychologically to where the husband in a Taken In Hand relationship is." I would like to take the opportunity to learn about myself in the mirror of others by you explaining from what you actually see written that makes you say this. How can you assess my psychology from 2 pieces that I wrote here?
Finally about the autonomy, there is no attempt at diminishing here, but yes to see her "flourish" and "feel more herself", yes "stronger", but I don't get why you say "more autonomous"? In a relationship where the husband makes the ultimate decisions and spanks his wife if she behaves -- by his judgment -- outside the rules that they set, I don't see how that imparts more autonomy on her. Autonomy means someone can take a decision and say this is what I will do today, I will stay in bed, leave the kitchen a mess, walk around in flannel pajamas all day. That's autonomy to be able to decide that (and many other things.) Someone else coming and declaring that I just broke the rules and need to be spanked, that is not autonomy. I am not saying that a person could not willingly trade in autonomy for something more important to them, we all do that in any relationship and social life, but how Taken In Hand is giving more autonomy to the woman escapes me.
#6 There's spanking and spanking
It depends on how you feel about spanking. for Noone, spanking seems to be some enormous life-changing experience that completely transforms the woman, solves all her problems, makes her live happily ever after etc. But it has never had that effect on me.
I had several boyfriends who spanked me when I was young, and as far as I know none of them expected it to completely transform or cause the kind of major emotional upheaval that Nonne's spankings apparently cause his wife. I never expected them to do that either.
and while Noone seems to regard women as savage animals who have to be tamed, my experience of life and marriage suggests to me that men are just as likely to be savage and in need of taming as women.
I think of spanking as a way to help my husband and I get along better, resolve domestic difficulties etc, but it hasn't magically transformed me into a different person, and I frankly don't thi k it ever could. Spanking me hasn't magically transformed haim either, though it does seem to help him to keep his temper better.
Different people react differently to spanking, and I think while spanking for some may be a major emotional drama, for others it is just something that helps us to get through the difficulties of marriage. It's a useful tool, and it 's fun and exciting, but that is as far as it goes for me.
Louise
#7 Is a man “forever responsible” for a woman he tames or conquers?
This depends on the woman. If she believes AND acts as though he is responsible, then he is. If she chooses to depend on him and his guidance, then the relationship becomes his prize to cherish and nurture from then on.
But, then comes my retort to this. Why is this even considered a rational question? Should not ANY man who exerts the effort to tame, conquer, and guide the woman of his choice GLADLY accept the responsibility for her well-being?
#8 When in love
I asked my husband in the grocery store so he wouldn't know the question mattered. "Have you spanked another girl?"
"No," he answered.
"Then how do you know how?" I've been spanked plenty hard for whining, not listening, excessive masturbation, and for lying a little lie.
"How? The task isn't difficult. I could pull it off in the frozen foods."
"But isn't it hard to hurt me and make me cry?"
"Yes, but that's easier than reasoning with a spoiled brat. A spanking should hurt. I've been thinking my belt or a paddle might be appropriate at times. You're big enough for that."
I'm slight. "But why didn't you spank your girlfriends?"
"They weren't mine."
"So you never spanked any of them even just for fun?"
"That isn't what you asked. You don't need to know what I've done for fun."
"So you have?"
"You're having trouble listening," he observed, and I felt quieter.
Um