Explicit consent - finally!

Something very positive happened this past weekend. I've been holding off on writing about it until the discussions about consent ran their course. Well, that seems to have happened, so here is an update.

On Sunday, Elle said something out of the blue. It is actually typical of her communication style. I had come up behind her in the kitchen and wrapped my arms around her to give her a hug.

She purred and continued what she was doing. Then, after a moment, she said, “What you did last Thursday...” (She was referring to the events I discussed in this post).

“Mm?” I replied.

“You can do that anytime you want. I really liked it—not as it was happening obviously—but... it was nice.” She turned around and held me tight.

Eventually, she whispered, “It's so much better. I can just be me. I can be a &*^%# if I feel like it, get spanked for it and not have to feel bad because you aren't mad at me.”

There was another long pause as she gave me a back-rub from the front with the palms of her hands. “Just make me feel like that every once in a while,” she said. “The past week and a half have been wonderful.”

I think it was the first time she's said something about being taken in hand without saying that it wasn't enough.

When we let go of the hug and she turned back to chopping whatever it was, she said, “Make me do something tonight. I want to feel it.”

No, the words I've quoted above aren't the real words that she spoke, but what she actually said wouldn't have made sense to anyone other than me. Besides that, it was too personal to share in its literal form.

So, the whole point about consent (implicit/explicit or whatever) has become moot for us. I had to get us to where we are without the benefit of consent, but now that we're here, she's actually made it explicit.

This whole thing reminds me of Captain Kirk violating the prime directive—and then after he's saved the Federation, getting a message from Starfleet that he's authorized to violate the prime directive if necessary.

If he'd failed... well, the whole point is that he had to succeed.

Yes, I could have used a more highbrow metaphor, but Elle and I have been Star Trek fans together for twenty-eight years and it seems fitting.


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"If he'd failed... well, the whole point is that he had to succe

This whole thing reminds me of Captain Kirk violating the prime
directive—and then after he's saved the Federation, getting a
message from Starfleet that he's authorized to violate the prime
directive if necessary,

Politics is ALL ABOUT SAVING FACE. Kirk was rewarded and "authorized"
he FAILED... well, no point in going into that, because it didn't
happen, but had YOU failed... well, that didn't happen either, so once
again, no point...

BIG POINT? Kirk took a huge risk. He COULD have gone down the TOILET,
but, instead, his risk was VALIDATED. And as for YOU, well, you
already KNOW that YOUR risk was validated as well.

The scary part of all this is, that SUCCESS can only be VALIDATED by
the RISK one takes. It all comes from the so-called "flip of the
coin". From what I've seen, enjoyment of life ONLY comes by living on
the EDGE. You tossed and won. I tossed and lost. But, your toss
encourages me to toss again. Happiness and contentment in life is a
gamble of risk. Denial of risk is a denial of life. Denial of life is
suicide, which I have considered in times past. At one point, I
attempted suicide and failed. and I may make the attempt again.

No worries for me now, though, since I have purposely allowed myself
ten more tosses of the coin, each at a one-year interval. I expect to
be dead of natural causes before then.

Mike Starre

A testament to enduring love!

Way to go, Carl! Your previous article and this one are a testament to the power of patience, understanding, good timing, and a liberal dose of love! Indeed, four years is not too long to wait—Captain Kirk never lasted more than 60 minutes before he got the girl, but then he was under a certain amount of pressure to explore the entire universe in his 4-year mission, so one can understand.

Younger over-eager men might want to take a page from your book. Far better to take the time to know your woman well and not move too fast for her, than to rush things along for your own benefit and maybe damage the relationship beyond repair. I have admired your ability to always keep the relationship moving, to push her ever so gently one more step... but to do so at a speed that would make her feel safe and able to handle the change.

Each woman is different and though most will not require years, many may need more than a few weeks or even more than a few months to adjust and accept this new way of living. True love—sacrificial love—and servant leadership offer time as a gift. And your wife has clearly accepted this precious gift and been truly blessed.

Thank you for sharing your journey with us. What a wonderful, happy ending!

Wendy Sue

I'm Proud

Carl, I'm so very proud of you for the risk you took, when you finally just went ahead and spanked her. That was not an easy thing to do, but you did it, and obviously you did it well! I am also very proud of Elle. After all these years of trying to hide what she needed from herself, as well as you, her admission and the giving of her explicit consent were equally difficult steps for her to take.

Now, you both get to reap the rewards of your own and each others' courage. Congratulations! I wish you both long, happy intimate lives together!
~smiles big~


I am commenting without reading the other comments because your story has made the light bulb go off in my head.

"So, the whole point about consent (implicit/explicit or whatever) has become moot for us. I had to get us to where we are without the benefit of consent, but now that we're here, she's actually made it explicit."

This seems to me to be "acting as if." When I wanted to change my ten year marriage from head of the household to more domestic discipline, I had to act as if it had already happened. Kind of giving him the taste of how thing could be. Which for me was hard without the reinforcement of discipline in place yet. But I had my eye on a goal and kept myself inline until he was on board.

You are correct though. When the husband takes the risk of making the first move...it is riskier. I mean if a women shows all of her cards and acts, well...*nice*. There is really not much she can lose, except unmet hopes. For the husband who is implementing discipline without consent...he could be risking the whole relationship. I have thought that if a man suspects his wife wants this kind of thing he could playfully try it once and then step back and evaluate. (That is if she is not open to flat out discussion.)

With that...congratulations. It will probably make your job easier having this piece of the puzzle in place.

Thank you, and some further thoughts

I hadn't seen any of the comments on this thread until today. Thank you, all of you, for your encouragement and support.

Yes, "acting as if" can be a powerful thing, but it really does come down to taking the risk.

The "risk" here wasn't just that I might do too much or go too far. It was also the potential for opening Pandora's Box. If I did "it" wrong, or even if I did it right, what changes might it have made in her, and would those changes be irreversible?

Would she become someone different? Would she decide that I was a terrible person for doing what I did (that I should have known better than to listen to her)?

On top of all that, the issue of non-consent is ongoing. I have to take the leap of faith each time.

Elle has a tendency to say "no, not this time", and to say it with anger in a very strong and defiant tone. In other words, "Yes, I want you to take charge, force me to do what you want (or what I really want but can't express). Yes, I want your anger when I don't obey. Yes, punish me when I refuse... but I don't want you to do it right now, on this issue. THIS ISN'T ONE OF THOSE TIMES!"

She says that almost every time.

When I take her in hand, verbally, physically, or with just a raised eyebrow, she voices her strong defiance with an anger-filled "don't you dare!".

The most recent time, she said, "Do that one more time and I'll sleep in the other room!" So, of course, I held her in place and did it quite a few more times, until her anger was replaced by fear, and then by crying, pleading, contrition, and eventually, submission.

Afterward, when she recovered, she threw her arms around me and apologized.

To any outside observer, I did not have consent in the middle of the process, but I knew that I had the consent that she would give me, retroactively, once it was over.

Being married to Elle requires faith—and a good working knowledge of temporal mechanics. (That was another Star Trek reference).

Elle's resistance

She sounds like many women I have known.... indeed, she sounds like me, many years ago, before I accepted this aspect of my own personality. This is a woman who absolutely wants and needs to be dominated, and is very uncomfortable with what that means. As a woman, I know that I struggled with the uncomfortable feeling of a loss of control. But Elle cannot have it both ways. She cannot tell you when you can and cannot control her. That's a negotiation that you enter into slowly, over time, but ultimately, she is happiest when she relinquishes that control--she just doesn't want to admit it to herself or to you. But everything you've written that I've read reminds me of cues I have given men, that some have picked up on, most have not. The woman is crying out in the only way she knows for the kind of consistent firmness from her man that she needs to feel safe. I would say, do NOT believe a woman like this when she says, no, not now. Force her, and do NOT back down. You back down, and in her eyes, you have disappointed her. I loved your description of when you finally gave in to all of the internal pressures you both lived with, and fully spanked her.
Her response is exactly what it should have been, but it has to be repeated. She has given you TOTAL permission to do this to her as often as she acts out. You have absolute authority to do it. Speaking as a woman who has been EXACTLY like this with men, including the teasing discussions of spanking, etc., I can tell you that she wants it badly, and she does NOT want you to let up. The key is that she always turns to you, she does NOT run away, she only threatens. Verbal threats from this kind of woman are part of the testing. Do NOT believe them. They are utter nonsense. The woman is aching for you to take charge with gentle, calm, consistent, firmness. Any man who will do this with no hesitation for the woman who needs it has that woman's absolute trust. I have been lucky enough to find a man who understands all this about me, and he knows he has me whenever he wants me. I do NOT hold back with him. I tell him everything, he has my body at his disposal, and it's wonderful. Such a release for both of us, but it was only possible because his dominance is consistent, sweet, and firm. I do not question his authority, because there is no need to. But the key to this is that I knew myself very well when we met, and I asked him certain questions that made it clear that yes, he is definitely a gentle, but firm, take-charge man. I was also explicit with him that this is what I want and need from him, and he told me he needs it too. I would have settled for nothing less, after a lifetime of trying to 'get' men to 'do this'. They were terribly uncomfortable with it, and I understand why, but it doesn't change what I need. Keep going with Elle. Her resistance is meaningless... and her surrender is sweeter when you insist.