Attracting girls as a nice guy with a capacity for violence

I was a reckless guy in my youth with a high tolerance for risk across a broad spectrum. I also had a great deal of skill in administering violence and organising others to administer violence. I am also fat, have emotional/intimacy issues, and lack communication skills. Accordingly I possess three qualities that various individuals claim are attractive (others too but that's by the by :)) and three that most of you will agree are not.

Here follows my factual observations of reactions, their context and rationales to explain these.

As a kid at parties I would have trouble with girls due to my personal failings. But if violence occurred, this increased my attractiveness to girls. This was contextual and increased in proportion to the level of violence. One example is when a large armed gang assaulted a party I was attending and at which no girls were interested in me. I chased the entire gang away by calmly walking up to them, issuing a verbal line to put the leader off-balance, then sent him to hospital in about three seconds with a concealed weapon (a night stick). I turned on the next nearest gang member and the entire gang fled, with me in pursuit. When I returned practically all the girls were sexually interested in me. There were similar smaller-scale incidents.

Thus, a capability for violence and danger can be very attractive to girls. I know this is true. I can also tell you that this depends on the target of the violence. Beating the crap out of the undeserving appeals to a tiny minority of females but the majority find it disturbing and repellent. In my experience a capacity for violence diminishes in its attractiveness to the vast majority (but not all) females the older they get.

I can also tell you that risk-taking activities such as motorbikes, joyrides and other naughty “adrenaline” crimes I won't catalog did not increase my attractiveness to girls to a degree I could notice. But if an activity demonstrated great dexterity, skill, agility or strength then, so long as the girl was not put off by the context, these would increase my attractiveness. So, the simple risk-taking aspect might well be attractive, but not enough to offset my personal disadvantages, but demonstrating skill or strength in high-risk situations often would.

I was also very nice to girls, partly due to my lack of other skills (which I rationalise many girls who do not find it attractive believe to be the major motivation of all guys presenting the "nice" behavior) but mostly because my dad taught me I should be nice to girls. When I say nice, I was pleasant and attentive, and I listened—but also I know I must have come across as needy. To examine this properly you must detach it from other influences such as those previously discussed, or a talent for humor, etc. I have observed a very small number of other guys who are nice and attentive to girls (99% of the time—people aren't perfect) but would in no way come across as needy or weak, and they are generally the most successful guys I know with a broad spectrum of girls.

So, to close this nice guy rubbish once and for all, I can inform you guys (and a few girls!) who think this is a failing that it is absolutely not, and that the guy's failing is in another area which he has chosen to ignore and explain away as being about the nice behavior. It is not. Believe me.

There are a number of girls (and few guys), often with vicious backgrounds, who view any decency as weakness, However, they are a tiny minority, unless the area is tough, in which case the occurrence of such individuals rises. They are generally hard and callous people themselves, or ripped to pieces so badly there's little hope of reconstructing them, so you should have no problem identifying them.

The majority of girls react well to nice and mostly decent behavior and view it as a positive but it does not on its own win the girl in general since on its own it's simply not stimulating. There must be other qualities present too (i.e. looks, confidence, perhaps cheeky humor, etc.). Do guys pick a girl simply by how nice she is? Of course not. A guy may well pick a girl who follows him around and appears to need him; however, this is simply a difference between men and women in that many men find this kind of neediness attractive (at least at first) while most women (and even fewer girls) do not.


Take the Taken In Hand tour

Have you seen the following articles?
The subjection of women
Women need to know when NOT to do as they're told!
Is chastity overrated?
Looking into the mirror of life
Men serve and lead, women receive and obey
Why would anyone want to be controlled by a man?
A good leader accepts that he is only human
Dominance and forcefulness, and violence
It's all my parents' fault!
Why is BDSM so popular?


Don't write off the nice guy profeminists

Women I know tend to be feminists who say that they want profeminist nice guys, but what they are clearly attracted to is strong, dominant males able to protect them using violence if necessary. They say they want pussy men but their body language belies their words. As a result, men have had to become similarly hypocritical, saying all the right things about feminism, women and relationships, while in practice being in control in their relationships. Others have buried their desire for control, and appear wimpy. Some women know that they want a dominant guy and are attracted to the dominant guy with the wimpy exterior because the wimpy exterior doesn't totally hide the reality of the guy. The problem comes when the girl thinks the guy is wimpy and leaves him, never knowing the truth.

You may be able to get the strength and dominance and control you want in a nice guy rather than a jerk, but many women end up going for a jerk because those qualities are more obvious in a jerk. Then they get hurt and abused. But you could get the qualities you want in a nice guy. Most guys can be dominant and in control if you tell them you like that. They have merely hidden those qualities in order to attract women, most of whom think they want wimpy profeminist guys.

Don't discount a man just because he looks like a culturally correct profeminist. He may well be a dominant man underneath the rhetoric. Give him a chance. Tell him you are attracted to his strength, and that you like the guy to wear the pants. If you want more dominance, tell him that, and tell him directly and clearly, or he won't believe what he's hearing. Guys tend not to take hints.

Be prepared for a negative reaction, and take no notice. A guy has to react the culturally correct way. Give it time and he'll come around—even if he appears to be a typical nice guy profeminist.

If he never comes around, then at least you know he's not the guy for you—if you're a Taken In Hand type girl.

Response to Hole in the Soul

You're on to something important with the violence theme. When many women see a man doing something like driving off a gang, they feel (I don't think this is too conscious in most women) that he can protect them, and that increases his "mate value" in our eyes and makes us feel amorous. I have had the same reaction to men.

You're right about another thing: if the risk-taking behavior seemed clueless or dumb to me, I didn't have this reaction to the men who did these things. But if it had a purpose or meaning or was part of skilled complex labor, it struck me as admirable. For many (if not all) submissive women, it's very important that we be able to admire the man we bed or marry. If we despise or disrespet a man the submissive response doesn't occur. Appearance doesn't make me personally admire a man, nor does brains or personality. He also has to have qualities about him that make me think, this is a great (or at very least, good) man, worth worshiping. :) For me, these qualities are ones I associate with traditional masculinity: bravery, strength, aggressiveness, and an ability to control their world and their lives.

The phenomena you observe ...

... when a woman observes a man being violent to protect a woman and when he exhibits good manual dexterity and skill is an economic decision. She has declared that he is attractive as a mate. All this is itself an artifact of Evolutionary Psychology.

For a good introduction to the topic, click: Wikipedia

It's late, I'm tired. Good evening, all.


Dangerous Nice Guys

I was a dangerous teen male, a jock and biker but nice to the girls and the nice kids. The school bullies hated me and I made sure they never hurt anyone when I was around. I had a lot fist fights in school and would even fight several bullies at one time. The girls loved me, they like bad boys but bad boys that protect them and treat women nice & who also have confidence are what a lot of ladies want.

Sing it, brother!

One of my husband's young employees came bouncing into work one Monday morning, and gleefully announced that his girlfriend had accepted his proposal over the weekend. "Congratulations," said my husband. "She tested you, and did not find you wanting."

The young man (and the dozen others in the meeting) all paused. "That's right!" he said, suddenly reflecting. "Her dad died earlier this year, and I guess I sort of stepped up and filled his shoes for everyone in her family."

"That's why she said yes," said my husband. This kicked off a lively discussion, and soon most of the paired-up males on the team realized that the women in their lives had committed to them under similar circumstances. All of them made the connection that, in one way or another, they had been accepted soon after they had been tested by their girlfriends in some arena that had seriously mattered—and they were not found wanting.

Consciously or unconsciously, most women want proof that a man will act heroically on their behalf before they agree to marry. After all, if I'm going to give everything I have for 20 years raising his cubs and tending his cave, I want to make damn sure he'll give everything he has, too, to providing and protecting that investment. I want to know that he's crazy-assed nuts about me, and willing to do whatever wild thing it takes to keep our family whole. A lot of our most enduring courtship rituals are coded ways in which men communicate, via their actions, this same message.

My own husband's test was more acute than most: he put himself between me and an angry person who was going for a gun with the declared intent to shoot me. Within a few agile moments, he secured the gun, effected my escape, and likely saved my life in the process. (Not the usual test, no. And I should mention here that my husband is a serious martial artist, trained for just such moments. Do not try this at home, OK?) It's a bit melodramatic to think your partner would gladly die defending you; but for me, this is not an abstract secnario, but rather proven knowledge. He put his big, bad self in front of a bullet for me, without a second thought for his own safety.

A week later, I was at his side, and have not left it in the eleven years since. He had been tested, and definitely not found wanting.

I make no bones about the fact that I'm submissive in my marriage for the very same reason that I'm one tough cookie to the rest of the world: I was an abused kid, and much of my emotional furniture is arranged to make damn sure that nobody ever messes with me again. Being under the protection and providence of a man who is capable of securing not only my happiness, but also my physical and economic safety, is simply the greatest peace I've ever known.

Unfortunate but true

True. Violence, sex and attraction run together. Especially where the violence is centered around self-defense and defense of a woman.

In my days in Boston I got into exactly one fight. It was unremarkable. A drunk 130 lb guy itching for a fight picked on me for no other reason than I was being an introvert, my head down and my shoulders a little slouched after a particularly hard day. Well—I was a ripped 198 lb back then and I squashed him flat as a pancake. Never start something but always finish it I say. And then I returned to having my head down, shoulders slouched and my drink. We are what we are. I'm a nerd and a lone wolf.

Wouldn't you know that ten minutes later two women sat down at my little table, and a little later, her friend satisfied I wasn't some pyscho, left. The attention perked me up a bit, I did all the right things, and spent an enjoyable night at her place.

It was one of the few times in my entire life where I was approached by the opposite sex, and for all intents, seduced. There is also no question what the trigger for the whole thing was.

Attracting Girls as a Nice Guy with a Capacity for Violence

Both the article itself and the various comments it has elicited are interesting and instructive. But there seems to be a lot of rationalization going on here at the same time. While there are undoubtedly any number of qualifying limitations to the appeal of violence across the board in individual cases, I think the matter runs deeper.

Anyone who works in a prison (as I do) quickly gets used to the rediculously high percentage of truly beautiful women among the visitors, but never quite gets over it. The men they are coming to visit are anywhere from street thugs to bank robbers. They certainly, as a class, don't validate the qualifying limitations on violence that some would put on it. Yet there you have it : the women they attract are, in a disproportionate number of cases, astonishingly beautiful ones. They've generally had their pick of them.

Beautiful women

You wrote that the men in prison have their pick of beautiful women. Just because a woman is good looking it doesn`t mean she`s intelligent and has a good character. The men who are in prison are not there because they were honest and trustworthy, so most likely there not exactly looking for those qualities in a woman. There looking for the artificial way of living not the honest way and that`s why they pick those good looking women. They want easy money and easy women. While other women might not be as good looking they probably have enough sense not to fall for criminals. Of course there is always exceptions of men who made a mistake in their life and truly regret it and there are plenty of good looking women who would never fall for a prisoner.
The question is what makes a woman beautiful? I`ve met good looking women who had rotten personalities and women who wasn`t good looking at all who were totally beautiful on the inside. Looks is not all that counts.

what makes a woman beautiful

What makes a woman beautiful? Easy, PERSONALITY. (yeah you already said this, I'm just saying it too) Personally women who are beautiful on the outside tend to scare me, a lot of times they have nothing better to offer than a "I'm better than you" attitude. But I'm a sucker for beautiful eyes...and I've yet to see a girl without them.

Beautiful Women

I believe that these men attract beautiful women because they are cocky enough to try. It is a fact that many men are not secure enough to take a chance on being rejected by a beautiful woman but these street thug criminals are full of themselves and have all the confidence that they can take that chance.

Just because a woman is beautiful does not mean that she is lacking in intellect or that she is easy. Beautiful women are spotlighted more and they are always being scrutinized.

I agree that looks are not what counts-- but what if a beautiful woman has the intelligence, class, kindness, strength of character, fortitude and the like--in her overall make-up? What is to be said against this woman then? And are less attractive women somehow more endowed with these admirable characteristics than a beautiful woman is?

What about the women who are not so physically beautiful that are full of spite, mean in character, rude, un-educated, and full of jealousy? Should they be given a kitchen pass to behave this way because they are lacking in the looks department?

The attraction of physical violence is interesting. I hate violent men! They scare me. On the other hand a man that possesses the ability to stand up to unprovoked aggression or threat of physical harm is a man who gets my attention. It does make me feel safe in his presence and the difference between the sexes is never more apparent.

My man is a big guy standing 6'4" tall. He is outgoing but fun in nature and people enjoy his company. He is gentle and kind to women and the respect he has for my gender is honorable. A man approached me while out for afternoon socializing and threatened me with physical harm. I did not know this man and had not said a word to him and he really scared me. My man turned to the guy and placed his hand on the man's shoulder, leaned in to him, and said something that none of the rest of us could hear and immediately this guy apologized to me with complete conviction. He was visibly nervous and concerned with appeasing me. My man was my hero! He was very humble in front of the others but he pulled me close to him and whispered in my ear " noone will ever hurt my Precious Baby--not ever again". I have to tell you that it made some kind of impression on me! I felt so safe and very much at peace. I stayed close to him for the rest of the afternoon.

You've got it down

Sounds like my childhood, man. You've got it down. So true. You understand what's up.

And keep writting, brother.